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05-25-2011, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Do you and I have different definitions of being "thrown off one's game"? It doesn't have to mean agitating to the point of spazzing. It can also just mean being intimidated. There is no contradiction here. Better question is, why do I have to explain the same thing twice to you in two days?
It doesn't matter. Bathgate will not be thrown off his game nor will he be intimidated.

You run into trouble here when you try to say Green was about as good as Neilson - he wasn't - and of course when you say the #4s are arguable. The latter is especially delusional.
Ted Green's peak is quite a bit better than Neilson's, and, despite a brutal injury, still enjoyed a longer career.

As I've said before, Reise's peak is better than Egan's, but Egan has like 15 good years under his belt.

Why should anyone consider Bathgate to be a superior PP performer to Selanne, let alone one of the finest in the entire draft?
Bathgate should be considered one of the best PP performers in the draft because he is one of the best offensive performers in the draft. Just like his overa scoring, his PP scoring was damaged by playing with crappy team mates.

Selanne was rarely, if ever, the best player on his team's powerplay. While he was a good PP player, he benefited from having other great players around him.

Doesn't sound like you know very much about Day's offensive capabilities.
I've owned Day in 3 previous drafts. I know very well his offensive capabilities, and they are fine. He'd be the 4th or 5th best offensive defenseman in my team.

[quote]Redden was one of the better PP point producers of the last decade from the blueline. He's fine as a #3.[quote]

Again, he'd be the 5th or 6th best guy on my team.

Neilson is only average as a #4, but when he got PP time, he placed in the top-8 in points 4 times post-expansion.
Neilson would probably be the worst offensive defenseman on my team.

I'm quite curious why you would consider Mahovlich a better PKer than Messier or Nevin.
Mahovlich was the best PKer in the NHL for at least one season.

Defensemen: Yes, Bourque is the man. Why does Stuart get to be called the next-best PKer in the series? You have no idea how he killed penalties. I realize there has to be some guesswork involved with a player that old, but it can only take you so far.
Stuart was arguably the best player of his generation, and he was an elite defensive player.

His goals per game goes up in the playoffs? Actually, you have to really fudge the numbers to get people to believe that. Yes, based on his career it does. But his career spanned 19 seasons and his playoff career spanned 11. During this 11 year period, his playoff GPG was the same (0.38) as his regular season GPG. By taking career numbers, you include the start and end of his career, when he had 65 goals in 318 games (0.20 GPG) - we don't know whether his GPG in the playoffs would have risen from that in those years, now, do we?
Who's fudging numbers now? Even with your skewed numbers, his goals per game remains the same.

Regardless, it is his points per game that really counts, especially considering he was primarily a playmaker. Bathgate's career 0.65 playoff PPG average is 29% below his career regular season average. Even more damning, it is 39% below his regular season average during that 11-year period. As for producing once he was on teams with a chance to advance - in 1964-1966 Bathgate averaged 0.59 playoff PPG with Toronto and Detroit... a 32% drop from his regular season performance over that same three-season period. A fine playoff performer? Come again?
His PPG dropped because his team mates were a bunch of seives. He can only do so much setting up - he can't put it in the net for them.

As for the 1964-66 period, that would include the 1965 season, when Bathgate broke his thumb.

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