ATD2011 Red Fisher Conf. Finals: Regina Pats vs. McGuire's Monsters
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05-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
Ted Green's peak is quite a bit better than Neilson's, and, despite a brutal injury, still enjoyed a longer career.
Why is his peak "better"? Both peaked as 2nd team all-stars.
He played a whopping 14 more NHL/WHA games than Neilson. And of course, 403 fewer in the NHL. I'll let anyone reading come to their own conclusion about who had better staying power at the top levels.
Bathgate should be considered one of the best PP performers in the draft because he is one of the best offensive performers in the draft. Just like his overa scoring, his PP scoring was damaged by playing with crappy team mates.
Selanne was rarely, if ever, the best player on his team's powerplay. While he was a good PP player, he benefited from having other great players around him.
LOL! OK, seriously, admit you just did that to make me waste some time proving it so horribly wrong.
- in 1993 he was behind only Housley.
- in 1994 only injuries prevented him from leading the Jets.
- in 1995 he was 2nd.
- in 1996 he led the Jets and/or Ducks.
- in 1997 he was 2 pts behind Kariya.
- 1998 was strange, the team's PP was awful and Kariya missed a lot of time - Selanne decided to lead the league in ESP instead.
- in 1999 he led the Ducks, outscoring Kariya by 11 points in fewer games.
- in 2000 he led the Ducks.
- in 2001 only the trade prevented him from leading the Ducks, but he easily led San Jose.
- In 2002 and 2003 he was 2nd on San Jose.
- 2004 was awful.
- he led the 2006 and 2007 Ducks in PP Points.
- only injuries prevented him from leading them in 2008.
- he led them in 2010 despite playing only 54 games.
- he turned 40 this season and led them again.
I've owned Day in 3 previous drafts. I know very well his offensive capabilities, and they are fine. He'd be the 4th or 5th best offensive defenseman in my team.
Hmmm, ok, then explain why Day's "1st, 4th, 4th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th" is not as good as Green's "2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 8th".
Again, he'd be the 5th or 6th best guy on my team.
Redden averaged more points per game than Green in a 50% longer NHL career, in a significantly lower scoring era. What gives? Oh, right! the vaunted "points finishes"!!!
Neilson would probably be the worst offensive defenseman on my team.
Well then it probably wouldn't be by much. Because he and Green played at the same time, and he scored 88% as many points per game as Green in an NHL career roughly 60% longer.
Mahovlich was the best PKer in the NHL for at least one season.
Oh, ok, forgive me, I didn't realize an on-again-off-again PKer could be voted the best in one season and become elite in the ATD. Next up: Rob Brown on a 1st line!
Who's fudging numbers now? Even with your skewed numbers, his goals per game remains the same.
I will let anyone reading decide what is more fudged:
- comparing Andy Bathgate's 1953-1971 regular season numbers to his 1956-1966 playoff numbers,
- or comparing his 1956-1966 regular season numbers to his 1956-1966 playoff numbers.
and while we're at it, they can also decide which is more "fudged up" from these two choices:
- using points as a measure of offensive output
- using goals as a measure of offensive output
As long as there are still people paying attention and not mailing in their votes, I'm set.
As for the 1964-66 period, that would include the 1965 season, when Bathgate broke his thumb.
Completely ignore that season and it's still a 20% drop in production - that is at least defendable, but two defendable seasons don't get extrapolated to being a "fine playoff performer" - it doesn't matter what parameters for logic one has set in their head, they won't buy that.
Last edited by seventieslord: 05-25-2011 at
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