ATD2011 Milt Dunnell Cup Final: Regina Pats vs. Ottawa Senators
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05-27-2011, 03:40 PM
Student Of The Game
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
The point IS his regular season record!!! At least when comparing him to Tony Esposito, whose regular season record you vault. He won time and again against several HHOFers and ATD scorers. He was the man out west, in terms of the crease.
ok, fair enough.
I sure wish you took the smallness of the league into consideration when you were discussing top-10 scoring by Eddie Oatman. I did an indepth analysis of each and every PCHA season of a few drafts back, showing him as having three great PCHA seasons and a bunch of 8th, 9th 10th scoring seasons, which made him the THIRD top scorer on his team, not at all impressive given the ice time/lack of multiple lines.
- Oatman actually had a total of ten seasons with a points ranking better than 8th, including 4 in the top-4 (this does include two seasons in the east). I'm not sure how often he was ever 3rd on his own team in scoring, but I don't imagine it was very many, and at least a couple times it could be explained by sparse assist credit.
- Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that just counting rankings for old players and old leagues can really get you into trouble. That's why I like using percentages, that separates a "good" 6th from a "bad" 6th pretty quickly. 6th with 20 points when the leader has 30, that's pretty decent. 6th with 11 points when the leader has 30... not so much. Percentage-wise, Oatman was about as potent offensively as a guy like Tod Sloan. Not great, not a guy I'd want on a 1st line, but passable on a 2nd as a grit guy.
- I recall having a similar conversation with The Sabre when he pointed out a few times that Jack Marks "ranked highly" in his league in scoring but those were fool's gold finishes.
Your discounting of a 3- and 4-team league accomplishment during an era with at least two top leagues and some quality talent elsewhere (how can one ignore the WHA and International hockey then between 1970-1985 in determining Esposito's seeding relative to the best of his era - you just compare him to NHLers in your claims
I'm not. If I was, I'd have called Espo the 3rd-best of his era, after Dryden and Parent. I called him "4th/5th" for a reason - because Tretiak was certainly better and Holecek is a maybe. I don't personally believe anyone in the WHA was a threat to him though.
Well he certainly should be drafted a lot higher in the ATD, as several GMs concurred by their reactions to the pick this draft. Tony Esposito may be arguably better but not clearly so. That's the rub.
Absolutely he should be taken sooner.
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