Thread: Speculation: Gormley piece: Carle v. Leino?
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05-31-2011, 12:45 PM
  #119
VanSciver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) Stats are not analysis. You do analysis with stats, which is what you are attempting to do with +/-. Of course, doing solid statistical analysis requires actually understanding the nuances of stats, which you do not appreciate at all in your attachment to +/-.

2) 60 minutes is simply a rate. You could, with simple math, convert that to 20 minutes if you want. Those are purely empirical numbers, which cannot be debated.
When your doing statistical analysis, stats are analysis. I understand completly the nuances of the stat. It's your opinion that I have an attachment to +/-. That doesn't mean that's the case.
You could do that, or you could more accurately look at it on a game by game basis. Which is what should be done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
These two paragraphs are mesmerizing. You observe and admit the major flaws in +/-, but then turn around and blow them off. There is nothing anomalous about a bad defensive player having a strong +/- on a good offensive team... it happens ALL THE TIME, and EVERY YEAR.
I didn't blow anything off. I also didn't state or admit that there is major flaws. I simply stated some situations with +/-. And that does happen every year. When your looking at hundreds of players in the League, what is the case with a few is an anomaly in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The stat strongly favors team play over individual play, making it extremely problematic to use as an analytical tool for an individual. The only telling thing in +/- is looking at an individual's +/- relative to the rest of his team. A good defensive player on a ****ty team usually doesn't get slaughtered like some of his teammates.
In my opinion it all evens out for the most part over an 82 game Season. Team play is certainly a factor in +/-. It always has been. And I'll again reiterate what I've said in previous posts. +/- is jut one indicator of many of a players play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
But strong +/- on good teams... I mean, hell, Briere had a great +/- this year, and he's absolutely atrocious defensively.
I would not label Briere atrocious defensively. He has some physical limitations especially at the Center spot that hurt him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm ambivalent about Carle... I think he's fine for what he does, but I think he's overpaid a bit, and if we need cap space he's easily the first limb to get hacked off this summer.
I'm not ambivalent about Carle. He may need to be traded, he may not. But I wouldn't move him. The aspects he brings to the ice are very important for the Flyers and he is a key player on the team.

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