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06-20-2011, 07:09 AM
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Perhaps you missed it, but I'll re-post it

Forsberg playmaking skills were not overrated, that is a very foolish and ignorant thing to say, and Jagr was not any tougher than him, at all.
Forsberg could have two guys on him and create a play or beat them out to score just as well as Jagr. Not only that, but he could completely destroy them in a check.
I would give him the edge in the toughness department, without any doubt.
Something else that I'd favor Forsberg with is the defensive side of the game. He was even regularly used to kill penalties. He was a much better two way player than Jagr, there's no debate there either.

Overall however, I'll give the edge to Jagr. The main reason why is he's played over 500 more games than Forsberg. Otherwise, it's awfully tight.
Gretzky is still known to most as the greatest player of all time, but I'm sure Lemieux would have destroyed most of his records had he been healthy.
Forsberg always had to deal with injuries. If he hadn't, he'd still be playing and his numbers would be very close to Jagr's.

Also, you say Jagr got 83 assists playing with Miller and Hrdina. This is a false statement. He got his assist being centered by Straka. He played, on average, 9min more per game than Hrdina/Miller, so it's simply wrong.
You're also wrong about Forsberg. He didn't play most of his time with Sakic, nor Hejduk. His linemates are similar to the ones Jagr had. Maybe some were better, like Claude Lemieux or Kamensky, but trying to diminish Forsberg's play by saying he had better linemates (and making a false statement that Jagr spent his time with crappy ones) is very disrespectful of Forsberg's talent and accomplishments.
He played with Sakic on the PP or when they trailed, and some occasional shifts, very much like Crosby/Malkin and even Lemieux/Jagr.

They have extremely similar scoring ratios, with Forsberg having a clear edge in the POs, and he has suffered from recurring injuries throughout his career.

I think you need a little refreshment of how Forsberg used to play, because you either barely ever watched him, or simply forgot.
(Note that this is coming from a guy that give Jagr the edge over Forsberg.)

I don't agree that Mario would of destroyed Gretzky records at all, it's a stupid hypothetical that has no basis in reality and certainly can't be proven. I defend Gretzky like no other on these boards, because people go out of their way to try and downplay his accomplishments.

Adjusted points were created to try and normalize his results. The best way to judge is based on how they dominated their peers and Gretzky was ridiculous. There is no way anyone would of destroyed his records, not possible. Perhaps tie, or maybe even beat slightly, but destroy, not a chance in hell.

I seen threads about how Gretzky got all his assists from measly secondary assists ect to try and discredit him. When the facts are he had over 1000 primary assists, and who says secondary assists aren't as important as the primary anyways? Those trying to marginalize the greatest player of all time.

Just my little rant, not really directed at you kriss as I know you weren't really doing any of these things, but I do take exception to those who think anyone would of destroyed Waynes records.

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