Play Trevor Timmins - 2011 Edition
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06-27-2011, 02:32 PM
Join Date: Feb 2002
Originally Posted by
Not because it's not that particular thread that it can't be found. With a little patience, you can find everything everybody in here said.
Now, it is funny that the people in here are being bashed for having opinions while those professionnals like Timmins and Co have that great luxury at having a job filled with the crapshoot argument. So they could have that luxury but yet, posters in here are being bashed and ridiculized for not having it right....while having 1% of the possibilities that those professionnals have to evaluate those prospects?
The whole idea behind the supposed bashing of Timmins and Co are mostly about the 1st rounders. I personnally came with some arguments about how I didn't like the Kosty, Chip and Fischer picks. Yet, I also hated the Price pick, and I wasn't too sure about the Subban pick 'cause I had "heard" from tons of people how his defensive play was all over the place. So I didn't had that pleasure to see him myself live and as far as I remember, not even sure I saw him on TV that year. So I had other favorites. As a freakin fan. 'Cause again, if we'd take solely the opinions of professionnals in here, might as well close the board. Or might as well have all the threads start and ends with "Well, I trust the org., and let's see how it pans out". Would be a heck of a lot of fun. See, I really don't understand why there's so much emotion around Timmins and Co compared to the coach, the GM or even the players. Everything people question a selection, you have all that draft police coming hard....Yet, when Martin is question....or Gauthier is questioned...or Gomez play is questioned....you don't see that same kind of police. As far as I'm concerned, they are just as professionnals as Timmins. Who are we to judge their talent and effort?
So as a fan, you go with the end-result. End-result is that the positives are that Montreal has seen the most players played in the NHL all out of all the teams. Timmins and Co recognize who will play in the NHL. Now, the 1st rounders have not been all great and he is being questioned....just like the majority of the head scouts in other cities. We take care of our city, they take care of theirs. And if there is some logic argumentation around why we felt they missed the boat, so be it. They are humans, they can make mistakes. But we're allowed to mention it. We're fans, that's our right. Obviously, if you are a fan who never have an opinion and then comes around and mention how he sucks and that you would have done differently, then, while you still have a right to talk, your opinion won't mean much to me. Just like the posters' bashing made by people with no opinions....Tough to be wrong when you don't commit on anything....It's just as easy to bash Timmins when you don't commit yourself on players to go after then it's easy to bash posters when you also don't commit on players yourself...
So I'll play the game....have fun coming back hard on me and bashing me in 5 years while on the same breath, you'll go easy on Timmins saying that it's not his fault....it's so much a crapshoot....Oh and another point....I hope one day, just one day, people understand the difference between liking the draft THE SAME DAY IT HAPPENS and liking it down the road. And that we can do ALL THAT, with the idea that it's not because we don't like now, that we won't like it in the future. That calling a draft underwhelming or not sexy DOES NOT MEAN bad or waste of picks....One day, people will understand.....
He was THE guy to take. Nothing to add. GREAT PICK! If Beaulieu isn't there, I go with Klefbom. HM to Jenner and Puempel.
Tough pick. I don't doubt the Didier pick. I like it. But I would have gone with a couple of other scenarios (I know, I'm trying to assure myself...but here's why.
I would go with
Big tall offensive centerman that I didn't see play personnaly but saw 1 game on the net and read tons of reports. But I don't like to say that name based on how not a lot of times I saw him. But I guess he'd be my pick. I would have love to be a professionnal and see him play live 10 times....but I can't. Clearly boom or bust pick there. Could clearly fit in the Justin Jokinen syndrom. Other possibilities for me would be
Reid Boucher and Colin Jacobs
I saw him play A LOT. And I like him.
I already mentioned how I was a fan of Archambault all year long despite his struggles. So I don't HATE the pick. If you go back to the list I made BEFORE the draft, I talk about Archambault in my HM (just like Daniel Pribyl) But I would have definately gone with 1 of
Michael Mersch or Kale Kessy
I do not know Nygren. At all. Won't say I saw him, read report or whatever, I can't. So which fits EXACTLY my "It's an unsexy pick...but it doesn't mean it won't be a great one...". Streit was an unsexy pick to say the least....So my pick would have been
Samuel Noreau or Philippe Hudon
. Now, I have to say, already, that Timmins pick is most likely to have the highest upside of the 3 so we'll obviously wait.
Saw Dietz play on TV a couple of times and it struck how great he was on open ice hits. His timing seems always perfect. Kid is tough as nails. I'm just not too sure of his ceilign as far as playing the game. So I would not have selected him but would have went with 1 one
Michael Houser (undrafted goalie) or Austen Brassard or Gabriel Beaupré.
Perfect pick. I had him in the 4th round. Actually, though I don't have ANY merit as it was mentioned, my pre-draft list contained 111 names in my top 5 of each round, in my Honourable mentions category and in my "Timmins picks" category, 3 of the players I mentioned in the 4th round were drafted by the Habs (Archambault, Pribyl and Sullivan). Though to keep a great record, I will not mention the names of the guys that weren't drafted AT ALL...
. I have Max McCormick and Patrik Westerholm as my HM in that round.
Colin Sullivan. Great pick. But my perfect pick was
But I have not a whole lot to say about Sullivan aside from being a very good pick. Clearly, for me, THE best pick in the 7th round we've made since there are 7 rounds. I never understood the "stupid" picks of Kishel and Johnson (called them stupid then, still believe it now, and proving it as we speak...) but Sullivan has UPSIDE. There were TONS of other players not picked that I would have considered like LeSieur, Benson, Thomas, McKee all of which I have no idea how they were not drafted, makes no sense to me....but all and all....Sullivan and Marchenko are on top of the list.
Note: In hindsight, Timmins would have prefered to keep the 3rd round pick 'cause he WANTED Pageau and thought he'd still be available. And I wanted Pageau too....Was not exactly against trading down though.....I guess I would have also bet he would have still be there....but something is SURE....just before the Sens made their pick, I said that I wouldn,t be surprised if Pageau goes....not sure if there was anything we could have done to prevent this....I guess not.
Note 2: Not a bad draft like I already mentioned. Beaulieu is a great great pick. Didier has the perfect mix of solid and upside to make it. Archambault can be the new Dumont, Nygren can be the new Diaz even though the "old" Diaz hasn't started yet, Dietz could be tough and solid SOB though upside is questioned, while Pribyl and Sullivan might the greatest boom or bust picks since the 7 rounds were instated.
Note 3: We expect the best out of our scouting and development team. We have that right as the Montreal Canadiens fans to wish we'd go further 'cause we are waiting for the end results. Reality check....most players who were just drafted, didn't have 1 year old when the Habs won their Cup....some of them were not even born. Out of that present team, and out of that present management under only the Timmins supervision (which means excluding 2003 when Savard and Timins share the paternity of the draft), we only have 5 players that are playing with the big team right now (about to be 6 with Emelin). And while the next fact is NOT Timmins fault, we have NO return over the guys he picked, and does well elsewhere. So we have to expect better and bigger things from Timmins but also from the development team and the evaluation team. So many players taking their talent elsewhere, so many wasted opportunities. Yes, things might change real soon when Price, Subban and MaxPac, takes this team to another level. But AS OF NOW, we are still waiting. I see NO PROBLEM in having the greatest of expectations for our team.
Note 4: Having all them wrong ourselves should not refrain us from criticizing. Even if you are a ex-Atlanta Thrashers fan, and you witness so much crap going on all these years, even if it's been done by "professionnals", even if you didn't succeed in choosing better players, you have to expect that professionnals, with the means they have, would be able to do a better job than you in front of your TV, computer and occasionnal live games....By chance, we're not that Thrashers. But I'd expect it from any team. And if you are unable to have a great quantity record, might as well have a great quality one. All this with the understanding that you can't nailed everything on the spot. But you still need results. And on the standings and scoreboard preferably.
Hope it's satisfactory.
One last time WS - I enjoy reading other opinions, especially one as informed as yours and Snake for example. What I object to is the arrogance that often accompanies the remarks; as if guys that do it as a hobby know better than the amateur scouts.
As an aside, why would you consider Hudon a worthwhile prospect? Have you ever seen him play? He had his best year as a freshmen at Choate and last year he had a meager 10 goal production. I understand the skating and physicality but he has subpar hockey IQ. As a matter of fact, for someone that has seen him play since novice, this has always been his Achilles Heel.
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