Thread: Stamkos
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07-13-2011, 09:05 PM
  #201
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I'm not going to let the moment and allure of getting a player like stamkos to cloud my reasoning and judgement. I'm not going to make a counter proposal because I am not willing to pay any hefty price to get him. Our organization is in good position right now to keep moving forward. Stay the course, don't deviate. I have hardly posted in this thread because getting Stamkos is unrealistic. I'm not sure how "I call your bluff" applies maybe you need to rethink that part of your post. I never made a proposal in this thread and dont intend to. But I will pick apart the idiocy of other proposals to shed some light of sensibility in this thread.

This is where you're proposal leaves us (and I dont care about the line combinations):

________- Richards - Stamkos
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Wolski - _______ - MZA
Prust - Boyle - Fedotenko

Extra's: Avery, Rupp, EC.

_______ - ________
McDonagh - Sauer
Erixon - MDZ/Valentenko



You dont have Thomas anymore who could be a future top 6 forward. You've dealt Stepan who could also be a top 6 forward.

You have no legitimate LWer. Now yes you could move Dubinsky up to the 1st line. But that means then you have to move Wolski or Avery into the 2nd line LW. You weaken the depth. Then who plays 3rd line LW? You can not assume Hagelin makes the team out of camp. You also can not assume you find something via Free Agency because there is not a lot left. Also can't just make another trade because you've already exploited a lot of your assets in the stamkos trade.

But forget the forward group. The defense is the most glaring of problems. Staal-Girardi are irreplaceable. There is no one in free agency. There is no one in our system who are ready to step in and play the game that Staal does. Erixon might be that guy a few years down the line but not right now. And again you cant afford to make another big trade.

But go ahead put your trade proposal on the trade board. I'm sure it'll get a warm reception by not just Lightning fans but other fans seeing as they will view us as idiots for making such a proposal. Lightning fans would be licking their chops to get a deal like yours, it'd be highway robbery and a travesty.

EDIT: Not to mention what wolfgaze already pointed out, TBL would not be able to take on all that salary.
1. I agree we should TRY to pay way, way less. The point was, IF Stamkos was available on the open market, all teams bidding, and the Rangers did not want to give up say, just Dubi - AA - Cally, Hank, etc., this is what's left.

Whether this is what should actually be paid to actually get Stamkos is another question, and I acknowledge your legitimate concern it is a valid one.

The first question is if Stamkos were available, what would we have to give up to not be outbid?

Then when you have an idea at the size of the ransom do you decide if you want to overpay.


2. Regardless of whether or not it is this package, or some other ransom, you make a value judgement. Not only must you ask is Stamkos worth this, based on expectations of his performance, but can you/do you accept the risk of injury.
That's a bonafide reason to say no.
But that's another question. The immediate question is IF you agree he is worth it, ASSUMING MAYBE he becomes available, what is the highest ransom you have to expect to pay --- which I gave without surrendering our most prized players at our thinnest spots (Fs).
[I actually think the negotiated price will be a little lower --- perhaps as much less as being able to pull back Staal for something else. BUT THIS IS THE HIGHEST PRICE YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO OFFER IF YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE THE OFFER.}

3. I agree the roster is immediately thin, temporarily. The question is, is it worth it GOING FORWARD?
Here I think people of good conscience can disagree.

4. As to what you specifically said about the roster, Fs:
Avery, EC and Wolski's lazy ass are close enough to deadwood.
Rupp can play.
Weise deserves a shot.
I would manipulate the lines, Boyle to W.
See Weise making the club.
Kreider is 1-2 years away, mostly not on how much farming he needs, but how much he wants.
Disagree, see Hagelin deserving every chance to make it short of falling flat on his face, and he's actually more ready, IMO, than Thomas was, to step in right now.

I think we can get by on F.

5. OK, you got me on D. No body can replace Staal, he's the best shutdown D in the league. Still:
a) Stamkos is worth the price of such depletion paid only for the short term.
b) We have enough guys, no doubt. The question is, how fast do they get here.
I agree with you there may be growing pains, but I disagree, with all the added firepower, barring injury.
Expect good things from Pashnin, Parlett,

So basically we do get by on D also.

6. Depleted assets. We don't need that much, barring injury. But if we need a serviceable W to give depth, and we don't want to overpay a 3rd rounder like Slats did for McCabel, we have just enouh depth here and there to put together a deal. For example, we have Chad Johnson. Anything premium for Chad Johnson? No. But a serviceable W? Why not? Even if more is added. Again, wny not?

7. You consider this massiver overpay, bordering on travesty. Fair enough. Again, I said this is the highest end of the ransom you have to expect to pay to get in and cover projections from other teams also willing to overpay. I expect once the frenzy calms, all bids will competitively flatten out somewhat. To be virtually certain to prevail, this is the highest NYR would have to expect to cough up. A bit less may still get the job done.

If you think he's worth the price.
Fair question, no problem if you disagree with those who say pay it.

I'm inclined to pay something in this ballpark, reserving right to see what the final price would actually be.

Peace out...

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