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07-27-2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Where did he say players can't learn from players? You really undermine your own point when you purposely exaggerate his point in order to argue against it. He merely questioned whether Weber learned from O'Brien, which is a far cry from suggesting that no player can learn from another.

As for toughness and sticking up for your teammates. Personally, I think it's one of those intangibles in hockey that gets way too much value placed on it (along with 'hot' goalie). As long as your team isn't timid (i.e. Ville Peltonen), I don't think it is really that important to be tough. All things being equal, I'd rather have that 'sandpaper' but it just doesn't add significantly to the team.

I'm trying to work out in my head how O'Brien's presence actually changes opponents' desire to charge the net, etc. In the modern NHL where retaliation is limited, how many hockey players are afraid of doing something lest it mean some after the whistle shoving? And how many of those players who are afraid of that are the ones who charge the net?
I agree with all of the hockey points in this post. Obviously toughness is something you want on your team, but like you said, only when all other things are equal does it really play as big of a role as a lot of folks tend to think it does. The fact is people like to watch physical hockey, and they like to see their team win. If you see a game where your team not only outmuscles the other guys, but wins doing so, you'll likely keep that image in your head of how a game "should be played". That's fine. I just don't think losing Shane O'Brien is going to be a big deal, even if we only include his toughness and exclude all of the negatives he brought along with it.

As for keeping players from running our goalie, the players who do that on purpose will continue to do it. Guys like Perry and Cooke will always exist, and no matter who you put on the ice those guys know the worst that can happen is they drop the gloves and get knocked out. More likely they will simply drop to the ice and look like a wimp. They don't care. Shane O'Brien being on the ice didn't make Pekka Rinne look like a more protected goalie than any others in our history. He still got ran every now and then, once in the play offs right before Weber nearly took a murder charge.

edit: haha one of the mods might want to change the name of this thread and merge the two Bouillon posts over to a new thread Sorry for my part in hijacking it

Last edited by TMI: 07-27-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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