MLD 2011 Draft Thread II
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07-28-2011, 12:03 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Bryan Berard's ES Ice Time
When I read on my phone last night how drastically wrong dreakmur claimed my findings were, my first instinct was, "I can definitely be wrong, but I can't be THAT wrong". Here is what I found:
It appears that dreakmur, when using NHL.com, ignored a lot of cases where players came and went throughout the season. If one started the year with the team and one finished the year with the team, and both played more than Berard, I would count them combined, as one player ahead of Berard at ES. I don't think dreakmur counted these at all.
(all figures ES-based)
1997: Berard was 4th on NYI behind ********, McCabe, and Jonsson.
1998: Berard was 4th on NYI behind McCabe, ********, and Jonsson. I counted Vaske yesterday by accident, he played just 19 games.
1999: Berard got severely limited minutes in New York, but I was not counting that, I said he was #1 in Toronto and that's true.
2000: Berard was 4th on TOR behind Yushkevich, Kaberle, and ******.
2002: Berard was 3rd on NYR behind Leetch and ********. To call him 4th, I must have counted **** but he played 11 games, and 55 elsewhere.
2003: Berard was 3rd on BOS, behind Boynton and *'*******. (WTF? I must have counted ********, who played 10 games in Boston with more minutes than Berard, and 50 elsewhere) It should be noted, though, that Berard played 11 seconds per game more than the #5.
2004: Berard was 4th on CHI, behind Poapst, Klemm/Vandermeer, and Dempsey/*******. All played more than him when in the lineup but those pairs were not in the lineup at the same time.
2006: Berard was tied for 4th with Suchy on CBJ, behind Foote, Klesla, and Westcott.
2007: Berard only played 11 games. When he was in the lineup it appeared he played as a #5 behind Foote, Klesla, *******, and Eriksson (I realize this is not really significant in evaluating him)
2008: 7 defensemen played at least 46 games for NYI that year. Berard was 7th in ES TOI among them, a full minute behind 6th (Sutton)
My research was sloppy yesterday and I apologize, as I got three years wrong (1998, 2002, 2003). My statement was also blatantly incorrect but that was mostly due to wording. I said
"I can't think of a single drafted MLD defenseman who was only top-4 in ES icetime on their team once."
But I had already acknowledged him as being top-4 in Toronto twice in a post earlier than that:
"the last 2/3 of the 1999 season after coming to Toronto, when he received #1 minutes from Quinn. (But he became increasingly frustrating and was the #3 in the playoffs and #4 the next season until the injury)"
So, my statement, as I believed at the time, should have read that
"I can't think of a single drafted MLD defenseman who was only top-
in ES icetime on their team once."
. That was still wrong because of my sloppy work on 2002 and 2003, but just to clarify, that's what I meant.
With all that said, Berard was still a specialist and I can't think of another drafted MLD defensemen who was only top-3 in ES icetime on their team 3 times or fewer (other than Bladon - 3, and of course, Doughty, who has only played three years, all as a #1). In other words, the statement, when revised, still applies to Berard - it's just not nearly as damning.
Originally Posted by
You say it's gone through, but that's not really your call. You just seem to think you're in charge....
That's the power vested in me as commissioner. I tried to do the right thing here. I'm not pleased with how it went either. But I gave you the chance to disagree with it. You didnt - not until the process had already been started - and I'm not going back on it after that point.
I'm sorry for the tone of my last remarks last night, but yeah, you can leave if you want. I'd prefer you stick it out here, but I won't be begging you to stay. What's done is done, though.
This actually went exactly as I originally thought. I thought you would be the one to complain, and, eventually, you were. By then it was too late to turn back, and I thought you'd threaten to quit... you did.
He always played a lot of PP time, but he was also top-4 in even strength time almost every season. That is not what I would call a specialist.
If that's not a specialist then the only way to define it going forward would be for defensemen who got some PP time and scored points, but were only 5th-6th at even strength. That's an extremely narrow definition, and one that would rarely apply to a player drafted in the MLD or AAA or AA draft.
Don't forget, either, that aside from Toronto, this was all done on crappy teams with a lot of mediocre defensemen that he really had no excuse for playing behind.
Relative to MLD defensemen (which is what mattes), he's a specialist - big time.
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