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08-05-2011, 06:11 PM
Beef Invictus
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
How many players have 5 Art Ross trophies or more? There are 5, Esposito has 5, Jagr has 5, Howe has 6, Lemieux has 6 and Gretzky has 9 or 10, not sure.

So my question is, what is more rare or harder, winning 5 Art Ross or scoring at a PPG clip at age 39-40?

It seems that scoring at a PPG clip at ages 38, 39, 40 are more frequent than someone winning 5 Art Ross trophies. Jagr is one of a handful of have accomplished that. I don't see why he doesn't at least deserve the benefit of the doubt.

What Selanne did was yes but is also awesome considering he never played more than 54 games the previous 3 seasons and was far below PPG those 3 seasons. Selanne was injured and bounced back.

Jagr arguably bouncing back from a 2007-08 season is not as impossible. He's healthy and hasn't been rehabbing any injuries or bad knees the last 3 years.

So are healthy and fitness not important then?
Scoring 5 Art Ross Trophies is irrelevant. The point is this: expecting Jagr to score 95 points flies in the face of all evidence...that's why it would be special for Jagr to score 95 points.

While we're at it: Gretzky scored at less than a PPG in his last season at 38. Lemieux at 39 didn't score at a PPG, though it's a small sample size. Howe at 39 scored less than a PPG. Esposito at 39 scored less than a PPG.

I never said conditioning isn't important. Nobody is saying that. However, you are overrating it. His competition will be in great condition as well, and they will be younger. Being in shape only gets you so far, and it doesn't counteract the natural and unstoppable aging process. 70-75 points would be a really good season for him. anything more than that would be something truly great. Impossible? No. Unlikely? Yes. Should it be expected? No.

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