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08-11-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
could i get some numbers please, not trying to be a d!ck but thats not what i get when i look at some of the basic stuff like HR, runs scored and RBI (all for this season).

howard has 91 rbi w/ 62 runs scored and 25 homers. so add 91+62 and you get 153 then subtract 25 (so you don't count the same runs twice) and you get 128. so howard was in some way involved in 128 of the phillies runs this year. victorino has 41 rbi w/ 71 runs scored and 12 homers. following the same logic you get an even 100 if i'm not mistaken. granted shane has about 90 less ABs then howard but i don't know if he would make up the 28 difference in those 90 ABs. even so it would be close imo.

what am i doing wrong?
Nothing. I probably shouldn't have phrased it that way.

What I meant is, in a context neutral environment, Victorino would contribute much more offense to his team than Howard, because Victorino been much better at the plate. That's the crux of the RBI debate; players should not be penalized or rewarded for things that are out of their control.

A batter's job is to hit. That's it. He can't control whether there are runners on base when he comes to bat, nor can he control whether or not his teammates drive him in when he reaches base. To say that Howard has been a more productive hitter than Victorino might be true, but that's only because he has far more opportunities to be productive. An entire lineup of hitters with a .932 OPS (Victorino) would score many more runs than an entire lineup of hitters with an .829 OPS (Howard).

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