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08-18-2011, 12:09 PM
  #43
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Exactly, playmakers need people to play with. Gomer had a decent second half too. Forget about his salary. He'll be very tradeable next year when his team salary is very low anyway.

The problem on this team is AK. I'd love to see them turn his salary and our surplus into a big trade somehow.
The problem on this team has been that we've had too many mediocre forwards and not enough size or grit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
It is highly revealing when someone regards a statement of facts as an 'agenda'
Yeah right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I think it's because people focus too much on seeding and not enough on the actual point tally we should be shooting for.

Anything less than a 100 point season for a team that's been rebuilding for close to 10 years is, at this point, an unmitigated failure. Sure enough though, the mitigation will be there. It always is. Be it injuries, media interference, fan pressure etc.. the apologists will always concoct a handful of excuses that conveniently place blame anywhere but on the players and management.
I felt Gainey didn't rebuild aggressively enough but in his defence, we've had some weird things happen too. Higgins, Komisarek, S. Kostitysn... they were all good draft picks that showed promise and then dropped off the face of the earth for one reason or another. We should've had a better core now than we do.

And he deserves huge props for taking Price (even though that was a super lucky lottery pick.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Define rebuilding, I usual use the term for teams that can't make the playoffs and are committed to changing their core group. You seem to define that as any team that is not a top level cup contender which means that about 22-25 teams are rebuilding all the time.

I'd say that Montreal spent 2005-2007 rebuilding, attempted to compete for 2007-09 but failed and rebuilt themselves entirely over the course of 2009-10 and are now trying to be competitive for the 2011-14 period with the current veteran core. Whether that is a wise plan is a subject of innumerable debates.
Heard that argument before and it's silly... Just because you aren't a contender doesn't mean that you're actively rebuilding. Look at the Leasfs for the past decade...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
It's sad certain "fans" practically want this team to fail to push their agenda that we're a bad team.
Or maybe they want the team to win a cup and feel that we aren't good enough to get there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Rebuilding for 10 years? How many years in the past 10 have the habs made the playoffs? LoL Gainey came in, took a franchise that was a mess and made it respectable and the habs have been competitive almost every year since he came on board.
Gainey made it respectable but not great. We've usually finished with somewhere around 92 points. That's hardly as great as you're making it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
They had some very high profile misses in the draft and it's cost us. We probably could have snagged Carey Price by picking up a low first rounder and taken Kopitar instead (a big, skill centerman we still badly need). And passing over a big Canadian boy like Getzlaf and getting outbid by Jersey for Parise was inexcusable. We could have had all those guys on cheap entry contracts and loaded up. Not sure what Gainey did to clean anything up. He kept us on the same level with different players, basically. And some players played over their heads and got us some surprising results. Other than the one year Carbo took us to the top with a bunch of Euros, then got fired for it because he had to play fourth liners in the top 6 because we were too soft. There are no excuses. These guys are paid to win and get the job done, and I'm still looking at several of the players on this team and shaking my head at how we're ever going to get a Cup.

PG has already made a dent in that sad history by signing Cole. That signing alone guarantees that we'll improve - if he stays healthy. I'm very happy with our current GM. About time.
I think we've drafted very well actually (for where we've drafted). And Carey Price was a superb pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
29 other teams fail to win the cup every year. It's a combination of hard work, skill and luck. We were short on luck last year, to go along with our lack of scoring(which they're addressing).
Funny how it's usually the top teams that get lucky. I wonder why that is? I guess they just luck their way into the top finishers and fluke their way into a cup...

A wonder why a last place club hasn't managed to win a cup? I guess they need more four leaf clovers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
I'm curious if these same people(the negative nancy's), predicted all doom and gloom last season to go along with an eighth place finish. Did they predict we'd lose to Washington two years ago in the playoffs, and then again to Pittsburgh? How many times can they use the same excuse that we just got hot goaltending at the right time.
Are you saying that goaltending isn't the reason we got past the first round against Washington? Really?

Look Cammy was great and others stepped up but no matter how you slice it, it took a Roy-like performance from Halak to get us out of the first round. And we didn't even belong on the postseason that year because we finished with a pathetic 88 points. We were an AWFUL team that year and we were saved by amazing goaltending. Please don't pretend otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
San Jose is the poster child for the "big, skilled, Canadian team", and they've failed to win the cup every year.
Sure, and Ottawa assembled great teams but didn't win. But at least they built legit contenders with a shot at winning... You can't ask your GM for more than that.

As has been stated above there are 29 other teams. Even if you do everything right and assemble a powerhouse you still might not win. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to build the best team possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less Habitats View Post
I don't care, if someone wants to dislike every thing this team does, and discredit any time they have success, they can. I'm just tired of their arrogance. If anyone disagrees with them, or has any hopes for this team higher than squeaking into 8th place, suddenly they're the idiots.
You've got things backwards here.

Criticize the team and folks go all 'Charlie Sheen' on you and freak out. We ALL want the team to win dude. Some folks just don't see the team progressing the way we hoped it would. I don't think we're a bad team but I don't think we're as good as we could've been and I think we made a lot of mistakes along the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
What I get is if all the pessimists are so upset that they need to come on here
Because they're fans and care enough about the team to post here.

In fact, I'd say they're better fans because they don't just show up here when we're winning cups. And they actually (rightly or wrongly) offer up their thoughts on what we could do to improve the club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
and cry anytime somebody is optimistic about the team why don't you all just go watch Detroit instead? Clearly you only care about winning and nothing else so you may as well go with the closest thing to a modern day dynasty.
What I don't get is why you feel the need to worry about what these folks say... It's a place where people go to express their opinions on the team. The club has been in 8th place seemingly forever, so some people aren't satisfied with that. That doesn't mean that they're negative or 'crying'... it means that they want something better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I mean really the way some fans bash anything positive about the habs makes you wonder if they're just closet Nordiques fans who love to ***** and put the team down 24/7.
When I read posts like this, it makes me realize that our fans are a lot like Toronto's. Many will defend the club's moves no matter what....
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
News flash, there are 30 teams in the NHL. At any given time plenty of them are in the midst of or at the end of a rebuild. How often do these rebuilds get you a cup? Not often actually, more teams have failed re-builds than successful. You're expectations are just too high in sports league of 30 teams and a salary cap. We're still one of the top 50% teams in the league each year and we're even only a few years removed from a 1st overall season. Take a chill pill or go back to following the Avs if you hate this team so much.
That's right... there are 30 teams.

All the more reason why you have to make the extra effort to be better than everyone else... Relying on luck is not a winning strategy. Yes, you will get lucky and unlucky bounces, happens every year. But that shouldn't stop you from building the best team you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Really people make it sound like the "apologists" are the ones who are annoying but the incessant whining of the haters about management coaching or euros is quite frankly about 100x more annoying. Furthermore the haters just hate plain and simple and rarely if ever bring anything to the table of discussion or even have a valid point. It's always euro bash this, coach bash that, Gauthier this Gainey that. But yet they think they could do it better? You must be a real arrogant **** if you actually think you'd be doing any better. There are 30 teams in the league and a salary cap. There are only so many players who want to play for each team. There are only so many quality general managers, coaches and players. Some people around here need a wake up call. Finishing 1st in the East a few years ago and making the playoffs most years is far from a failure.
So because we aren't GMs we can't criticize the moves? We can't see that Gomez was a stupid move?

Seriously?

Do I have to be a GM to know that Rejean Houle was a disaster (regardless of who was pulling the stings)? Of course not. So why can't folks come here and give their opinions on... you know... a message board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Were there hiccups along the way? Sure. But we're still in a position that we could go far even now. If you guys are too bias and pessimistic due to various hating to realize that then go follow Detroit because clearly it isn't about being a habs fan to you all, it's only about winning.

I want a cup as much as the next guy but at least I'm realistic enough to realize it's a league with 30 teams and news flash... you guessed it, all of them want to win each year
Sure.

And some of those clubs don't care about the cup. They care only about 8th place and making the playoffs... Some care about the cup but make dumb moves along the way. Some get unlucky etc...

This is the place where folks go to talk about these things. If they feel the club isn't that great, they'll tell you why. Doesn't make them negative and in fact, they've been much more accurate on how we've finished than guys like you have.

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