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08-20-2011, 09:01 PM
  #112
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Hard to know now.
The risks, well, we are not a model of stability over the past few years, which is a reason of our lack of success (lets say that it certainly did not help), and the pressure here, is not the same as it is in other markets where its easier to conduct such a plan.

Burke chose that way, with Toronto, Philadelphia did spent only one season only in the basement...I believe that today, the GM think that a team around the 9-10th spot is probably good enough to be kept how she is and is ready to be improved, and its for them, a better, or at least an easier way to do it.

Choosing to build a new team from scratch with picks, its like a boom or bust...either you've a good team in 4 or 5 years, either you've lost at least 10 years.
For the safety of your job, and for the franchise, i think its understandable if they chose to be sure of a 5-8th spot if they "just" do a solid job with what they have in the first place.
It hasn't gotten us anywhere... and it's not surprising. In fact, the only reason we even have Price is because we lucked out on in a once in a lifetime lottery win in 2005.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
When we look at the real rebuilds done over the last few years, we can say that Washington, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Los Angeles and Chicago, among the 16 teams in the last PO, really did benefit from their respective rebuilds with high picks.
On the other hand, it means that the rest of the 11 teams did not, and we have what, 6 or 7 teams struggling despite their high picks.
Those are just teams that have done it in the past few years though. Go look at the list of cup winners and see how many have been rebuilds. The vast majority of them are.

As for us, we have much better scouting than clubs that have failed. I'd argue that our scouting is among the very best in the league. We simply don't draft high enough or trade for enough prospects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Yes, we do a have a great scouting staff, but the number of young players breaking out in Montreal, recently, is not that big. The new staff possibly changes this (as we currently see Pacioretty, Eller, Desharnais, Subban and Weber in the team).

But even with a great scouting staff, you still need time and luck. The Blues and the Avalanche, as far as i know, are pretty good in the scouting area too, but they're still struggling.
Of course it's not big. We don't draft high enough. We build with good but not great picks and we develop good but not great teams... That's why we're constantly on the bubble.

Anyways, I've talked about this many times in the past and I'm repeating myself here. If you're actually interested in my thoughts on this stuff, you can look up some of my older posts because I don't want to get into this stuff again here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
We've been a bubble club for a very long time, but we should not blame the current staff for it. The players are almost all gone, the owner did change, the GM did change, the staff did change, its a fresh start.
We've seen countless threads complaining about Martin whereas he's by far the best coach we've had since...a decade probably, at least.
Thats with 15 years of mediocrity behind you. If you had 10 years of mediocrity + 5 years of garbage (because if you rebuild, you have to be garbage for a while), im not sure to have a positive environment.

Considering the way they chose, i think we have done a good job. Anyway, we could talk about what could have done, its quite late now...
I'm not blaming the current GM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Seriously, with all the injuries and disappointments in a personal level we had last season, we still clearly improved in a lot of areas. I think its more than enough to be confident about the fact its not a fluke.

Well...he did play.
But it would have affect us, just like a minor trade does.
But its an hypothetical scenario...
We'd have been better off making the trade for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
No, no, i agree, its just that a concussion or similar problem (Hiller) is not on the same level, for me, as a knee problem is.
He's obviously a risk, and i hope that they will wait, this time, before playing.

What i meant is that with Plekanec or Gorges or whoever, you cant be ready to deal with every situation.

If he goes down, i guess that our two young players named Eller and Desharnais will, first, have a shot in the unit. If we cant find a way within our organization, we have to consider that Gomez's contract is potentially a liability and possibly, slightly, but possibly, worth something in a trade...
The best thing to do would probably to deal for an upcoming UFA, but even if that kind of injury would be devastating, there is always something to use in this kind of situation. Eller could break out, some players will play better than expected or cant handle the new role, etc...

If we dont do something stupid, it could useful to build a contending team. The season is probably killed, but it could be useful.
An awful lot would have to go right for us to become a real contender with the prospects and players that we have now. And if Subban or Price don't elevate their games to the star level, I don't see us becoming contenders with this roster at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
I don't understand how you could expect more than PK and Price as building blocks lol.. Two potential superstars.. You can't have a team full of them lol.. I think we have a great mix of youth and veterans and its good because the youth don't have all the pressure on their shoulders and they can transition smoothly into the NHL.. There's no other way to do it in Montreal or you'll run players out of town with the expectations this city has. The great thing about PK and Carey is they have a great head on their shoulders and they'll be able to push through criticism.

The only annoying thing would maybe be the length of the contracts of the veterans because we will want to replace them with our youth at some point but its a good thing trades exist lol.
As has well been established in this very thread, it's very, very hard to win a cup in a 30 team league.

Go look at the cup winners. The vast majority have multiple star/superstars on them.

Boston: Thomas/Chara
Pitts: Crosby/Malkin etc...
Det: Datsyuk/Lidstrom etc...
Chi: Toews, Kane/ Keith etc...

Some are stronger than others (Tampa/Carolina) but most clubs have multi HOF type guys leading the way.

I hate to break it to you, but in all likelyhood Price and Subban even if they become superstars, probably aren't enough. You're probably going to need another star and a really, really good roster to be able to do it. If we want to improve our odds and make a serious run, a star forward (which we've needed forever) would really put us into a contending position. It can be done without one (Boston just did it) but it's a lot harder to do. He doesn't have to be Crosby, but I think we need better than what we have right now.

And all this is based on Subban actually fulfilling his potential and becoming the player we all hope he will be. If he doesn't, then we're really back to square one. Great goaltending and not much else to look forward to.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 08-20-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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