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08-21-2011, 09:44 AM
  #117
Rutabaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yes, things aren't the same they used to be. Yes, it is harder to build a winner in a 30 team league. And yes, there will be non-rebuilds that will win cups. That doesn't mean that rebuilding isn't the most effective way to build a winner though. I won't say more than that. Go ahead and read my older posts if you wish. I've talked about this many times in the past.
I know how you feel it about it, and i hope that someday, we can find a GM or a former member of a management unit talking about the process, and how this kind of decision is taken.
Obviously, if you have a good opportunity to have a fresh start, it's probably the right decision, but it means so many things that except if you're in the 3 or maybe 4 worst teams in your conference, you're not going to take that road, thats the way it is today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Pleks, Cammy, Gionta and Gomez and Markov will never be better than they are right now. Some of those guys won't even be on our roster in two to three years time. As it stands now we'll be building with MaxPac, Eller, Emelin, Subban and Price. Even if Subban and Price become elite I don't think that's a winning core to build around. Even if we augment it with FAs, I don't really see it being good enough right now. We just don't have enough great young players for me to get excited about.


Maybe things will work out for us. Maybe somebody like Leblanc will emerge. Maybe MaxPac is the next John Leclair, maybe Emelin will take us to the next level... we have some decent prospects but as it stands... the future looks okay, not great. A lot has to go right for us to become the perpetual contending team that we're all hoping for.
Plekanec is still improving his play, Cammalleri, Gomez and Markov cant be as "useless" as they have been for the team as they were last year (for different reasons). There is still some room.

Again, picks and prospects are just picks and prospects.
Cammalleri is worth much more than an 10 or a 15th pick, and its quite difficult to find a player like him, even with such a high pick.

I'll also say that depth is probably more important than the true elite talent if you want to win a Cup. How many good teams have lost their year with the injury of one key player ?
We potentially have that elite talent (G & D), we potentially have the depth, at this stage of their career (they've all played under 3 seasons in the NHL), we cant ask for much more.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Unfortunately though, you have to compete against the best if you want to win a cup. Shouldn't we aspire to be as good or better than those clubs? Isn't that the whole point of what we're discussing here?

For the purposes of what I was saying above, it doesn't matter where those guys were picked or if they were rebuilds... the point is that elite players are a key ingredient in cup winning teams. Most clubs have multi-HOF calibre players on their rosters leading the way. Those are the kinds of teams that we'll likely have to defeat in order to win a cup.

As for the future, I'm not sure how you come up with us being equal to LA. LA has Doughty, Kopitar, Richards and two promising goalies in Quick and Bernier. That's much more to work with than we've got.

Washington, Chicago, Pittsburgh are all teams that are already elite with young players and are way ahead of us. Two of those clubs have cups already.

Yes, I agree Price is amazing and I believe he is good enough to leading us to the promised land someday. A great goalie can take you a long way. Maybe he can lead us further in the postseason and higher in the rankings as early as this year. Hopefully that's the case here. but we need to do a better job of putting better players in front of him to help ensure ourselves of a better shot at winning a cup again someday. Subban is a step in the right direction but we need more good young prospects to build from. As it stands now, I don't have any real hope of us emerging as contenders anytime soon. Not with the roster we have now anyway.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
We are not among the best yet. Who knows what could happen in 3 or 4 years. Right now the goal is to give us a chance to be better in the future while progressing for the next season.

LA, Chicago and Pittsburgh are not using players from the same generation. Toews, Kane, Richards, Kopitar, Crosby, Malkin, they already have a lot of games behind them.
Price did only have 2 seasons as a starter behind him, Subban is a rookie.

It doesnt matter in which kind of scenario this HOF-players were signed by their future teams, yes, but our best players are still at the beginning of their career. Give them time, especially considering their position, they still have a lot to learn.

Do you absolutely need an elite forward to win the Cup ? Im not sure at all. I would much rather use a versatile but talented, group of players rather than having the guarantee of a true elite forward.

Keith and Chara were not that good during their first 3 seasons, Thomas did not play in the NHL until he was 31, the Sedins have to wait quite a long time before being what they currently are...

Dont ask for too much too soon.
@bsl : A cup in the next 3 years ? Thats not a realistic goal. We just finished 6th, with 96 points. We should be able to be an outsider for the Cup, yes, but one step at the time.
And thats quite an overreaction about Price. We dont know whats going to happen this year, so in 3...

By the way, a window for the Cup ? Im not sure to agree with that concept. San Jose, Detroit, NJ did contend for years, Boston was not really among the safest bets to win this season, too...


At their age and stage of their career, they're among the bests at their position, which is enough to be reasonably confident about whats going to happen next. Now, its the toughest step, you have to confirm, to play even better while the expectations are bigger about you.

I think that after this year, we will have a better vision about the limits of this team and our young players.

I totally understand the doubts you could have, im not sure at all to have a forward group good enough to be really a threat, to be honest, i agree, i dont think that we will be good enough to challenge for the Presidents' Trophy for instance, as it is right now.

But i dont think we need to be dominant to win a Cup, and with a goalie like Price, we will always have an opportunity.
And our D is really looking good. Not because of Subban, but because of the potential depth alongside Subban. But we will have to wait.
At least, we probably have an area of strength where we can build something, thats an idea i like.


Last edited by Rutabaga: 08-21-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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