MLD2011 - Sir Montagu Allan SF - (1) Eden Hall Warriors vs. (4) Thunder Bay Twins
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08-23-2011, 01:39 PM
Join Date: Aug 2006
Originally Posted by
The team you've put together isn't exactly a group of rookies.
Neither are the current Boston Bruins.
Undoubtedly coaching can only do so much. Yet Lou is among the most respected hockey minds in the NHL. If he feels that his coach did not prepare his team for the playoffs, then that's whose opinion I will take.
The NJ Devils developed a locker room clique of entitled veterans, possibly the result of so much pre-lockout success while losing their pre-lockout leadership (mostly Stevens but also Niedermayer). Lou didn't want to fire the entire team, so he fired Julien. The team didn't get any better and eventually Lou ended up being forced to "fire" the leadership of the team - notice that John Madden, Jamie Langenbrunner, and Colin White were all let go for nothing in subsequent years.
You're acting like Dave Tippett never got fired himself.
I did not say that Dallas had a mediocre team. I said Phoenix was (is) a mediocre team, and he caused them to play above the sum of their roster.
So Tippett coached a mediocre Phoenix team into the playoffs and a first round loss. Julien coached a better (but really, not stacked) Boston team to the Cup. Seems to me that both men have helped make their teams greater than the sum of their parts in the last few years.
Once again, I did not say that NJ was stronger than Dallas. I said Julien achieved a Cup with a stronger roster (Boston of this year) than anything Tippett has had (and I stand behind that).
Boston isn't exactly the most stacked team, but yes, they had a good roster.
In regards to New Jersey, what I did say is that Julien failed to prepare a strong NJ team for the playoffs, and was fired for it.
Again, you're acting like Dave Tippett has never been fired. He was, in fact, fired from a Dallas team that was just as strong as NJ on paper - a Dallas team that accomplished nothing in the playoffs itself. And if we're cherrypicking the the year these coaches got fired, Tippett's Stars failed to make the playoffs that one year.
Bit of an understatement. His teams boast such finishes as 20th, 16th, 20th, 27th, 24th, and 30th in GPG. Good offensive seasons are an anomaly.
Congratulations, you're a true ATD GM - dishonestly selecting your statistics to suit your purpose. I like how your use of the phrase "such finishes" allows you to claim "I never said these were all the finishes" when called out on it.
You're just going to ignore the fact that Boston boasted finishes of 2nd and 8th in scoring.* The year they finished 2nd was really the only year Julien had a strong offensive roster with Savard, Kessel, and Bergeron healthy all season.
*Boston actually finished 2nd, 29th, and 8th in scoring under Julien, but hey, if we're selectively omitting seasons. It's a small issue, but that 30th you listed above should be 29th.
I will agree that he's become a better rounded coach the last few years. However, that 30th place finish was with Boston.
It was actually a 29th place finish, and largely influenced by Kessel leaving and injuries to Bergeron and Savard. What was Julien supposed to do, put on the skates himself to make up for the fact that his first line from the year before disappeared?
Now that you've harped on the offensive finishes, why don't you talk about the defensive finishes of Julien's teams, their winning percentages, or his Jack Adams record?
Anyway, Julien is definitely a defense-first coach. It's not like you can't win with guys like that. The majority of coaches who won Cups in recent years were defense-first guys: Scottie Bowman, Jacques Lemaire, Ken Hitchcock, Pat Burns, Randy Carlyle, Mike Babcock, and Claude Julien himself.
I'm really not sure what we are arguing about anymore - do you think Tippett is a more effective head coach than Julien? Then I strongly disagree.
Do you want to say Tippett is more rounded? I guess I would agree, but despite Julien not necessarily being the most well-rounded coach, he still has had at least as much success as Tippett. And we gave Julien an extremely strong assistant coach in John Muckler, a guy who can run the offensive side of things.
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