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08-27-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Re: Assists: Oh sure it applies to everyone, but Riley deserves more credit than the god awful play maker you're making him out to be. If he was as bad as you will die trying to prove, there would have to be something to prove that, almost as sure as there'd be something that proves he was above average. Riley is slightly not well below average as a playmaker.
so, extremely low assist totals compared to his contemporaries isn't enough, you actually need a quote that says "Riley can score a goal here and there but has proven to be very ineffective at creating chances for his linemates"?

There's some degree of toughness to go up against Joe Kocur in a fight.
Yep, and he even had a whole seven more fights than that!

Re: Honesty: I'm being honest, McCourt is more consistent than Stumpel is. Stumpel played on a better team, and had Luc Robitaille on his wing for half a year... John Ogrodnick benefited quite a lot from having McCourt on the wing. Stumpel's team/linemates >>>>>>> McCourt's team/linemates.
You're completely ignoring the fact that McCourt was overplayed on a brutal team - that worked to his favour, it didn't hurt his stats.

Stumpel badly outscored Robitaille when they were together in LA. But yeah, I bet Robitaille explains Stumpel's career-long history of ourproducing levels attained by McCourt.

Re: GYAFB? Give me one, you're not giving half the players credit that they deserve. 29, 25, 23 and 21 are also fantastic finishes for a guy who never played a full season. I know comparing eras is a no-no and that's not entirely what I'm trying to do. But Sinisalo is MUCH better than what you're trying to project him as, and I don't understand the apparent gap between Sinisalo and Warwick when Sinisalo was in a much more high-scoring era, but not so much that Warwick is clearly better in any way.
those would be fantastic finishes for an MLD player, but those are totals.

so now games missed is an excuse? ok, try this. from 1983-1988, Sinisalo was 45th in the NHL in goals and also 45th in goals per game among the top-100. I'm really not sure why you are so convinced the guy is an MLD player. two 30-goal seasons in the 80s and a few more with 20+, that is AA material.

The case has been clearly laid out for you that Warwick is the infinitely better goalscorer and offensive producer. You are just being obtuse now.

Re: Quinn: Pat Quinn is just as defensive as Kampman is? Kampman played in a smaller league, that's the only argument, I'm sure Quinn would get recognition if he played in a 6-team NHL in the 70's.
Quinn was usually the #3-4 on his own team, and these weren't great teams, either. So what makes you think he'd be recognized as one of the best overall defensemen in a 6-team league?

Re: Robertson: wasn't even the better goaltender in his Cup win, Normie Smith was. Being fronted by a strong team. Theodore played for very mediocre teams and remained fairly consistent throughout those years.
you're ignoring actual eyewitness accounts for both players when you say that. Read Robertson's bio, he was the hero of his cup win. And many people would use the word "inconsistent" when asked to give a few words that describe Theodore.

Re: An awful job? hahahahahaha not quite. I've pretty much explained the forward corps, and how they bring an obviously more dynamic offensive game than yours. Riley is better than Gracie, and his goal totals will most likely be higher than his assists, but he's not a bad point producer, neither is Gracie, but Riley is better.
if that were true, it would have been easy to demonstrate.

Richardson was a a goal scorer like Sutter in his day, and gained fame for being prolific in an early era. It's proper to say him and Sutter are similar.
Why? Sutter was not prolific.

I've explained my reasoning on McCourt, it's hard to deny given the era and linemates. Sinisalo and Warwick is not as complex or as far off as you claim, it's actually very close, and McCourt is a good play maker for Sinisalo, raising his effectiveness as a goal-scorer.
so can't I just say "Stumpel is a good playmaker for Warwick" too then? And since Stumpel and Warwick are both clearly better...

One of "those people"? I'll agree I probably have 25% of your knowledge in hockey, but I'm just pointing out what's obvious.
"one of those people" in this case is someone who is so absolutely dismissive of past eras of hockey that they can claim that a #3-4 defenseman from the 70s would be one of the best in the league just 30-40 years prior, that a face in the crowd from the 1980s is as good as a guy top-20 in goals six times just 40 years earlier, and that AHL players of the 40s and 50s were just Jason Krog/Darren Haydar types. Of course, you weren't "one of those people" when comparing a 90s player to an 80s player. In that case, and only that case, it was the earlier generation that was so significantly better, that it outweighed the later player finishing twice as high up on the leaderboards.

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