Habs management doesn't get it...(umpteenth toughness thread)
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08-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Originally Posted by
Yeah, sorry, I wont bring up Pronger in this thread anymore, promised.
Dude, I brought up Pronger with another poster... and you jumped in with Lidstrom.
Please, stop being silly.
Originally Posted by
These two points caught my interest, so I'll ask you to expand on these if you would.
Regarding Cole, I've seen your posts tend toward acquiring elite talent; that signing/acquiring guys like Gionta and Cammy borders on pointless (apologies if this is oversimplifying your stance). IMO Cole was one of the best options available as UFA, albeit best being relative to a very weak crop. What would you have done instead of acquiring Cole? Presuming the one top end UFA (B. Richards) wasn't signing here regardless, would you have
-bettered the offers for Richards/Carter from Philly? IMO such a trade would have hurt more than it helped.
-just gone with Pulashaj or some other farm player?
I never would've signed Gomez, Gionta or Cammy (who I think is a great player) to begin with. There was no point to doing this, they aren't going to lead us anywhere.
I said years ago that I would've dealt away guys like Koivu, Souray and Markov for strong younger players, picks and prospects who could help us down the road. That's been my philosophy on our team for a long time.
Once you build a team that is at the point that it can actually contend for something, then it makes sense to go the FA market or trade a pick for a vet. If you want the odd vet to work as a mentor for the kids that also makes sense. It doesn't make sense though to continuously build your team with overpriced, underperforming FAs and mid round picks. It makes it a lot harder to build a contending team with. It can be done, sure... but it's harder to do because elite players don't usually hit the FA market and even when they do, it's historically been tough to get them to come to Montreal unless we overpay them.
Some of the deals I've suggested or agreed with in years past
Souray for Bobby Ryan (Before Ryan was in the league)
Koivu for Bobby Ryan (Before Ryan was in the league)
Markov for JVR and a 1st round pick + whatever prospects we could get
Markov for JVR and Claude Giroux + whatever prospects we could get
Now, maybe none of these deals were a possibility. But they were hypothetical 'would you do this' type questions at the time I was blasted for even suggesting these deals. The guys I was talking about where prospects and unproven so it seemed insane. But it certainly would've helped us now and in the future if we'd made them. Hindsight is 20/20 but again, I was suggested the Ryan trades four years ago when the Ducks were a contending team and Ryan was too young to be of immediate use to them.
This year, Washington holds Colorado's 1st round pick for 2012. I think we should try to go after it now before Colorado tanks and winds up in a top 5 position. I'm not sure what the Caps would want for that pick but that's an opportunity where a contending team could very well have a high pick to deal with in next year's draft. Those are the kinds of things we should be looking at. Next year, folks will say that Washington got lucky in getting a top five pick... they didn't get lucky. They were smart. They dealt for a pick that could very well be 1st or 2nd overall if the Avs really tank (which could easily happen.)
Originally Posted by
As to the second point, 2 years ago the team rode a hot goalie to the semis. This past year, yes, it is ifs and buts, but if the team scores in Game 7 OT, the Habs would get Washington, who lied down like dogs in the 2nd round, then would have had at least a pretty good chance vs TB to get to the finals. Years past have taught us that you get into the POs, there's always a chance. Is this team a clear top of the conference powerhouse? No. But I expect them to make the playoffs and I think the team as currently put together at least has a chance. And if you are playoff team, then you go get players that make you better.
I'm not sure if your opinion is that the team shouldn't really bother with 2nd tier UFA like Cole, but I'm not sure not signing any UFA and running a payroll $10M under the cap. in the hope of, I suppose, missing the playoffs and maybe drafting a guy who might help three years from now is the way to go either.
Well, you're right. We could (as Mathman puts it) get lucky and maybe we make it into the finals. A lot would have to go right but it could happen.
It's not likely to happen though right? And even if we did fluke into the finals do you think that we'd be back there next year? No.
We're better off building a team that becomes a real contender that has a real chance at winning year after year. I know you're going to say... 'easier said than done' and you're right. It's hard to do, but it CAN be done. Some of the picks or prospects that we trade for might not work out or may be disappointing but the more you have the better off you are. And I just don't think we're going to get there if we continue to do things the way we always have. We build with mediocre (that's the word I'm going to use, feel free to substitute middle of the pack) FAs and mid round picks and we produce decent but not great teams.
We've had one top five pick in the last 25 years (a lottery fluke) that yielded Price. We amazingly seem to have managed to maybe find another elite guy with a 2nd rounder (Subban.) And that's fantastic. I just think we need to work on getting more elite players as well as stop building with small forwards in our top 6. They don't have to be Gordie Howe type power forwards but we need more size and some more grit up front. We can still get a Cammaleri, we just shouldn't surround him with other shrimps.
I think if we do that, we'll be much better off going forward.
Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 08-29-2011 at
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