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08-30-2011, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
These are Iain's numbers for the main Kenora Thistles, so just players on McGimsie's own team:

I guess I should be asking why Tommy Phillips is regularly drafted in the Top 250 when McGimsie scored at very similar rate? It's because Phillips had elite intangibles and was a LW.
That's why I said I wanted to see what his competition was. After seeing that, I'll easily concede that McGimsie is a superior offensive player to Ftorek.

Your "the closest comparables to McDougall have an ADP of 593" is a fine bit of statistical smoke and ignores the fact that the guys who were drafted high were drafted for their intangibles, not their goal scoring. And McDougall doesn't seem to have those intangibles.

Alf Smith (282)? Drafted for his elite intangibles
Harry Westwick (434)? Drafted for his intangibles
Graham Drinkwater (443)? Drafted as a defenseman!!!! (Are we supposed to be impressed that McDougall scored more goals than guy who often played as and is always drafted as a defenseman?)

So the proper comparisons for McDougall would be McKerrow (573), Trihey (784), Swift (823), Routh (834).
Drinkwater is in that table because he was a drafted player whose stats were provided in this thread, which I linked to in my bio and said that's where I got it from. If intangibles are so important relative to offense, why are you so convinced that Ftorek is that much worse than McGimsie?

And given Trihey's role as captain of multiple Cup winners, it's easy to see why he's drafted first.
McDougall won 5 cups himself. Trihey being captain of 3 cup winning teams certainly isn't enough rationale for me at least to see why he is easily drafted first considering the gap in offense.

So that leaves Clare McKerrow, Dolly Swift and Haviland Routh as McDougall's actual comparables. Not nearly as impressive, huh? Unless someone knows something about McKerrow that I don't, I have no idea why he was drafted as high as he was. Yeah, I guess McDougall should have been drafted right up there with Swift and Routh. But the "ADP of 593" thing is a joke.
So you're saying that McDougall should be in the 800-900 range in the ATD?

Now a real question would be this:

Why did Drozdetsky fall so far behind countrymen Balderis (used on a first line in the ATD!) and Kapustin? That one, I honestly don't know for sure.
Balderis is sorely out of place on an ATD 1st line, even a 40 team ATD. That's undeniable. Maybe it's because Balderis' domestic GPG of .721 blows Drozdetsky's .501 out of the water.(I'm aware Drozdetsky has a higher International GPG .587 to .503). The international thing is easily explained by the following:

There was great political divide between the two societies under communist rule, with the Latvians none too happy with Russia. So when the Soviet hockey authorities transferred Balderis (and a coach named Viktor Tikhonov) from Dynamo Riga, where he quickly became a living legend, to CSKA Moscow "in the interests of the national team," there was no shortage of outrage.

Balderis had no choice in the matter, but he played for the national team in a curious fashion. He would put on amazing displays of individualistic skills and rushes, almost toying with opposition, but would rarely score.

As the great book Kings of the Ice suggests, "it was his way of saying to the authorities, 'You forced me to be here, so you get what you deserve."

"I can get away with it on CSKA. If I don't score, Mikhailov, Petrov or Kharlamov will," Balderis added.

The Balderis experiment with the Red Army team lasted only three years, from 1977 through 1980 before he was returned to Riga, and for all intents and purposes dropped from the national team.
Balderis just didn't want to be there, and didn't play to his potential on the national team by design.

As for Kapustin, his domestic GPG is better than Drozdetsky, and international is very close(domestic .538 to .501 and international .577 to .587). I think it was you, it might have been seventies, that said it means something just to be making the national team in the Soviet Union. Kapustin played almost double the amount of games internationally that Drozdetsky did, and maintained a very similar scoring clip. Longevity. Kapustin spent 13 years on the Red Army team, and Drozdetsky just 5. You still didn't address my concerns about why Drozdetsky was, for all intents and purposes, kicked off the national team.

Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 08-30-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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