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09-01-2011, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hmm... you say that I dont understand and then you reiterate the same thing I asked... I dont understand how you are establishing value among certain players. If I understand correctly, you are saying that both of their values are even. That is fine. Your reasoning, as we can see posted by you in this exact quote, is that, since MPS is younger, and has half as many points, his value is the same as JVR's. Now, I am not comparing what teams they play on and how that affects their play. Now say that Couturier hits 37 points as a 18 yr old, half the age that MPS was. Does that mean in turn that, since MPS = JVR value wise, Couturier=MPS=JVR value wise? Lately, it seems among HFboards, that potential is a huge factor in how people are valueing players, as in, potential > known talent. I like MPS, but this sounds more life Leaf fans rating their players than anything.
My reasoning is that they are both high ceiling players who have performed similarly in the NHL. There is no way to quantify how high a player's ceiling is, but from what I have seen and read about both players, they are both very high ceiling players with star potential. Since MPS is younger, obviously he has not proven as much as JvR, but he has scored at an equivalent pace to JvR. Since they are both very young and JvR himself hasn't done anything that is out of reach of MPS's ability (even MPS only puts out the same number of points he did last year, their point totals will be only an 8 point difference after two season) I don't think you say that JvR is a more valuable player at this point. Maybe to this specific team he is more valuable than MPS is to the Oilers. But if we are talking about talent, output, and ceiling, it doesn't make sense to say they are not equal. Especially considering that MPS is playing on a basement dwelling team with little to no support. This year he should, at least in theory, have a better season because he is a year older and so are the young players around him. I'm not sure what line he will be playing, but if his linemates, which I believe would include at least one of Hall, Eberle, RNH, or Gagner, but he will benefit from their improvements as well.

It's not like we are talking about JvR vs. a guy like Stamkos where Stamkos is currently one of the best in the game and JvR has the potential to be one of the best. We are talking about a guy who has maxed out at 40 points over two years with a very high ceiling. MPS has had similar numbers with a similarly high ceiling, but is two years younger than JvR. In what way are they not equal? And yes, if Brayden Schenn or Couturier comes and scores 40 points this year, I'd say they are as valuable as JvR. Why wouldn't they be?

Again, JvR has not done anything more than what MPS has done so what makes him more valuable than a younger player with an equally high ceiling putting up the same numbers? You haven't said anything that refutes what I am saying except that I am wrong. So could you maybe explain your position as to why JvR has a higher value and ability than MPS?

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