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09-06-2011, 03:34 PM
Grave Before Shave
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It's mesmerizing how simple concepts evade you.

Winning matters for voting.

Losing matters for voting.

This is really simple stuff, really.
It's easy to say that, but then when I point out that it doesn't (list of guys who have won without being on winning teams vs. the list of guys who have "lost" while being on losing teams). Again, if you could show me examples, that would help, but you haven't done that. You have said winning has helped certain players, but have not shown me where not winning has hurt them. Except in the case of Pujols, which is fine, even though Howard was on a comparable team the year he WON. Not to mention the year Pujols won when he was on a team that didn't make the playoffs. I know I said I was done, but you just don't seem to grasping this too well. As I have said in all of my arguments with you over time, and which you RARELY actually do, show me why I am wrong. Show me instances where guys should have won but didn't. Not where guys should have finished 4th but finished 9th or where guys should really have been 2nd but were 5th. Instances where a guy was clearly the winner but lost, presumably because of the team he was on. Show me that and I'll eat my words. But I can't seem to find it.

Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Yeah, he is. It's hard to believe that anyone would argue that being on a winning team isn't a factor in award voting.

But maybe later you can come back and argue about whether or not water is wet.
Thank you for your insightful input this discussion. All I'm saying, and have been saying, is that if you are the best player or best pitcher, you're going to win. Just look at the guys who have won. Apparently the list of guys I have mentioned that have won on losing teams is irrelevant and that is just an exception. An exception that happens every year for the last five years and probably further back if you look.

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