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09-09-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
he was the #4/5 in 2009 though, so unless QUALCOMP also takes "QUANTCOMP" into consideration before spitting out that number, I wouldn't say it was all that significant.
Huh? Ehrhoff has been a 21+ minute defenseman every season since 2007-08. It's literally impossible to be anything below a top 4 defenseman when you see that much ice time.

- Why does Warwick get grouped in with Richardson, Stastny and Dahlen as "don't appear to be tough at all"?
I was talking about Richardson and Stastny only. They are the scoring wingers of the lines. I guess Warwick is something of a secondary scoring winger.

yeah, he's tough. An elite puckwinner, not with his size, no. but that was poor terminology on your part, to be sure.
Actually, it was a misinterpretation on your part.

have you read all the scouting reports on Erixon? He was not some talentless defensive waterbug. He had legitimate stick and puck skills. He was just an awful finisher. That's it. He doesn not kill his team's offensive ability - he just won't score goals. And those two things are not one and the same.
Erixon gets the puck in scoring position = as close to a guarantee that your team won't score a goal as there is. It really hurts the offensive upside of your third line when Eden Hall's defense doesn't have to respect the shot of one of the members of the line at all.
Harris of the 1970s placed 8th in Selke voting once... that makes him as much of a "shutdown" player as a lot of MLDers, doesn't it?
It's actually 11th in voting according to HOH - you have him listed as 11th on his profile, so I assume this was an error. I guess I got the Harrises confused - the winger Harris is as good defensively as most RWs at this level (not as good as McKay though). It's the center version of Harris who isn't a shut down guy.
Our 3rd line A BIT better defensively? There's only very modest defensive ability throughout your 3rd line (mainly because Kapanen actually played some D and because Sullivan is a shorthanded threat) but Erixon and Harris of the 70s are the two best defensive players on either 3rd line. And Harris of the 60s at least played a defensive role at times.
Sullivan and Pettersson are about as good defensively as the center version of Billy Harris. As I said above, I underestimated the defensive ability of the winger version of Harris. Your 3rd line wings are both better defensively than their Eden Hall counterparts. IMO, center is the most important defensive position on the ice, so the shut down ability of the line is still somewhat limited.

What makes McKay a better defensive player than Harris of the 70s? And what makes him conclusively any better than Grier defensively? (FWIW, Grier, in 130 more games, has the same ES production rate as well, and I think he did it with lesser linemates, too)
Lesser linemates? McKay's linemates were guys like Bobby Holik, Jay Pandolfo, John Madden, Mike Peluso, Sergei Brylin, Sergei Nemchinov: hardly a who's who of offensive players.

McKay is great defensively for two reasons:
  • Selke voting: Since we love our Selke votes here, McKay finished 9th in Selke voting despite never killing penalties. Considering how important penalty killing is for weak offensive players to get Selke recognition, that shows how great McKay was at even strength defense.
  • Contribution to team success as a checker: This is a much more traditional way to judge checkers. McKay was the right wing on the best checking line in the entire league for quite a few seasons. The line was generally XXX-Holik-McKay, with XXX often Sergei Nemchinov or someone similar. When the Devils stacked their checkers in the 2001 playoffs to play against linemates Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr, they moved John Madden to LW and kept McKay up there. The Madden-Holik-McKay line completely shut down the Lemieux/Jagr combo.
Tippett is not "almost" as good as Erixon, as much as you'd like to think so. (addressed above)
Depends on how big of a gap you think there is between the top checkers in the league (as addressed above).

Erixon, to my knowledge, didn't ever play with a "shutdown" center in real life. He even did some cleanup work for Pierre Larouche IIRC

I have no idea about the circumstances of Erixon, but generally teams that succeed in the playoffs (which Erixon's didn't) have at least one center with real shutdown abilities, something Regina does not have.

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