MLD2011 Finals - Eden Hall Warriors vs Regina Capitals
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09-12-2011, 10:39 AM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
Off the top of my head, Sergei Babinov and Al Hamilton also played in the 70s and were probably better than Gibbs.
sorry, meant to say “in the 1970s in the NHL”. Babinov would be really difficult to compare, I’d probably have to speculate on where he ranked within USSR on a year-to-year basis and try to translate that to an NHL equivalent, it would be ad-hoc at best) TBH, I can’t imagine how after what I said about Hamilton you’d still think he was “probably” better than Gibbs.
Originally Posted by
If Gibbs was a "defensive defenseman," why are most of the quotes in your profile about his puck rushing? Can you point me to a quote that indicates he was thought of primarily as a defensive guy?
Gibbs was ok, but not great offensively. I don’t believe that he earned his minutes for offensive reasons. He was not in on a huge percentage of ES or PP goals that he was on the ice for. With his physicality, PIM totals, minutes and quotes like “impossible to beat one on one” It appears clear to me that his value was defensive.
Problematic if you don't have a guy who can take faceoffs on each PK pairing.
Yeah, I fixed that.
How about just being a lot more talented offensively than Gibbs? I mean, it's not conclusive, but I would definitely rather have Sullivan on the point of the PP than Gibbs.
You bet it’s not conclusive! I mean, we don’t just put 5 forwards on the PP because they’re all better offensively than any of our defensemen – right?
You have Tucker on the 3rd unit now. Who can take faceoffs on the 2nd unit?
Yeah, sorry. Boutette played a lot of center. He and Tucker are pretty much the epitomy of 3-position MLD forward, in that they played all three in relatively equal proportions.
Maybe Gibbs' coaches went back to him more because there was no better option? 10% worse than league average is terrible and really shows how imbalanced things were in the 1970s (and why we should question whether simply being first in overall ice time on a mediocre team in the 70s is actually impressive).
then it could be argued that, relative to league balance, 10% below average is similar to 3% below in the 1985-1995 era.
I don't see anything here to indicate that Gibbs was better on the PK than Butcher. He got a small number of all star votes twice (never Norris votes) in the watered-down 1970s because of his overall game, not his defensive game.
The difference in usage is huge. 39% is not far off from “just his share” which would be 33%. 51% puts Gibbs in a very high tier for PK usage, team performance doesn’t wipe that edge out IMO.
Gibbs was only 10th-16th in points, with percentages in the 50-60% range, so I don’t think it was offense that convinced a handful of writers that he had a top-3 season. He was also nowhere near the top-10 offensively when Cliff Fletcher called him a top-10 defenseman in the league.
Also, if anyone thinks a good PP needs someone to muck things up in front of the net, then Regina lacks that on the first unit.
really depends on the PP strategy, though. I don’t see it as 100% essential.
That's very good (though not great) for this level definitely. Can he take faceoffs?
No, as far as I know Grier is as single-position as it gets. I never tried to sell him as anything else, though :p
at some point today I am still going to throw together a comparison of those 13 1970s NHL defensemen
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