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10-09-2011, 10:20 PM
  #278
Newhabfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
John Ferguson -- died at age 68.
Dave Semenko -- he is now 54 years old.
Dave Schultz -- he is now 61 years old.
Dave Brown -- he is now 48 years old.
Marty McSorley -- he is now 48 years old.
Stu Grimson -- he is now 46 years old.
Joey Kocur -- he is now 46 years old.
Tiger Williams -- he is now 57 years old.
Tony Twist -- he is now 43 years old.
Tie Domi -- he is now 41 years old.
Chris Simon -- he is now 39 years old.
Clark Gillies -- he is now 57 years old.

You want me to continue? The guys I listed above were some of the toughest fighters in the League with multiple fights. Some played without helmets or even used the flimsy non-padded helmets.

They are going on with their lives (RIP John Ferguson).

Suicide is an individual decision made by an individual person for reasons that we do not know nor understand. Blaming it on hockey fights is nothing more than forwarding an agenda.
You obviously do not want to discuss this rationally.

First you claimed that I said that only hockey fighters do drugs and alcohol.

Now you claim that I said that all hockey fighters commit suicide.

That's strawman rethoric. Platon described it 25 centuries ago.

And, of course, it's because I am forwarding an agenda. My agenda is obviously to deprive you (and those like you) of your TV entertainment. Just to annoy you... since I can't see any other possible gain for me.

Anyway - I will answer. It's the Internet after all and who knows, someone might actually read it.

Let's assume that for the last 10 years every NHL team had 2 goons. And that the average NHL career of a goon is 4 years. That makes a total of approximately 150 goons in the last 10 years. Out of these 150 at least 3 committed suicide that's a 2% incidence over 10 years. That's huge.

It's hard to compare with the general population since usually stats are given in cases per 100000/per year. In the young adult male north american I would assume about 20/100000. That means about 200/100000 in 10 years or 0.2% = still 10 times less than for hockey fighters. And that's assuming none of the other 147 goons did it.

This exercise has no scientific value btw - too few cases and not well distributed. No controlling for other stuff, etc. However - it says it's a problem.

There is also the modeling, or copycat effect (google Werther effect) since these three were clustered and there is public attitude against fights and fighters. The names you gave there were heroes, defending their teammates. Nowadays they are merely paid entertainers, punching each other in the face to raise TV ratings. So I would say that if I were the doctor seeing an NHL goon in my office I would definitely ask him if he has considered suicide. The risk is high.

There is one part that annoyed me the most in your post:

Suicide is an individual decision made by an individual person for reasons that we do not know nor understand.

That's stuff that I hear too often. "It was his decision", "who knows what his reasons were ?"

We do understand it. I spoke to people who attempted suicide and survived because of a fortunate accident. I read descriptions done by others. It's pretty simple and way too common.

The reasons for suicide are pain, despair and lack of help. Often mixed with some sort of numbing by drugs or alcohol. People who commit suicide do not rationally decide they want to die. They are in heavy pain, they suffer for one reason or another and they want this pain to end. Yet they see no way out, no hope. And they have noone to help or listen (or they don't know how/are ashamed to ask).

And even in the darkest suicidal crisis, people are ambivalent. The part of them that wants to live is usually the stronger one. No one is 100% decided to die. It's just that the "dark side" only needs to be stronger for a minute or two. And even then, a minor event, like a phone call or a picture that reminds you a good memory, can make you snap out of your suicidal plan.

I feel bad talking abut suicide on a Hockey forum. I'll stop posting in this thread. If anyone reads this and considers suicide please talk about it with someone, family, friend or professional. It's usually all it takes to get to life again. Pain diminishes and ends in time. And there is always hope - you just don't see it now.

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