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10-19-2011, 04:06 PM
  #67
GKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
He put up 17 points in 22 games with the Knights in 08-09 despite his 89 PIM.

Is it really out of the question that Rinaldo could score 10-12 points per season? Bring out all of the junior/college stats you want, guys like Powe and Betts are going to be right near 15. None of the three are around due to their offense. Rinaldo hits like a freight train, agitates, fights, and is damn fast. Hell, he even has more points than Powe this year.
After 5 games last year, Jody Shelley had more points and Simon Gagne.

And 22 games is not a full season. It's a part of a season. It's almost one whole college season, it was his best portion of games, in his best season, but it was a portion of games, not a season.

Could he get 10-12 points? Sure he could. Guys get goals and points by accident via puck luck. Chris Tamer scored from center ice on Ron Hextall, but he didn't start running power plays. You're right, he's not here because of his offense, just like Betts and Powe were not. However, when your on the ice, playing hockey, the object of that is trying to score a goal (or assisting on one). You can try, and fail at scoring a goal, but that's what you're supposed to be doing. This organization seems to feel there are exceptions to this rule, when there has never been one before.

And everyone who said it is right, he has done as the coaches and team has asked for the most part. For that he will get pluses on his report card. He wasn't put in a position to blow this opportunity (as good coaches do with players). For that he is to be commended. However, it's also quite a low standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I didnt realize the NHL was not a "What have you done for me lately" league in regards to prospects trying to make a team as opposed to a "well you put up big numbers in junior even though you suck now league"

Alex Daigle and Cory Locke say hi. Huge numbers in Juniors yet they are no where to be found on an NHL roster. Why? becuase their game didnt translate into an NHL game. Rinaldo was drafted based on what he did in junior, one would assume that the reason he is in the NHL is because what he was drafted for ahs translated to the NHL, whther or not you agree with the coaches decision to put him in is another question.

But stop belittling someone because he wasnt a junior star. last I checked this is the NHL, you earn your way into the league based on what you do to impress the coaches and staff, not how many points you put up in Junior or where you were drafted. Your notion that junior scoring prowess = effective 4th line player is hilarious.
I'm not talking about huge offensive numbers, I'm talking about just one season where he was a capable offensive player. These types of grinders, get that one year because they've proven to be capable enough at both ends of the ice to warrant that ice time at least against that kind of competition.

And that's where your Alexandre Daigle point goes totally out the window. It's irrelevant.

I never once said being a high scorer in juniors means you're a bona fide NHL player. I said NOT being a reliable offensive contributor in juniors (or college) - for even just one season - means you DON'T become a bona fide NHL player. There is nothing that Rinaldo has done to suggest he would be the first. That doesn't mean he can't, or won't, nothing in this world is impossible, but I'm playing the percentages in making this point, and those say that it's highly unlikely.

I'll lay the challenge out once again: Show me a list of NHL forwards, who is not a straight goon, that has had a sustained NHL career with numbers as bad as he does pre-NHL (juniors, college), and it only has to be ONE year, not 2 , or 3, or 4, just one. I've read the number of people who have come here and posted here and have has more exposure that felt from the very start that this was always a bad idea, and believed them, and that have not been proven wrong to date. Until someone makes a compelling case using that information, there is no reason for anyone to believe that he is capable of being a sustained NHL player, even as a 4th liner, let alone make it to the NHL this fast. Now that he's in the AHL, he can be coached, improve his game, is awareness, his puck skills, and come back and be a decent grinder, this is possible. Hopefully he won't be back until that happens and then can establish himself as something more than a strict headhunter.

Like I said, this is not some unfounded theory that is dreamed up because of an agenda of a guy on a message board. It's not a "notion" that I came up with in my sleep. I'm not even saying that it is completely impossible. I'm saying there has yet to be evidence that it is. Just like I could walk outside tomorrow and my grass could be purple.

I'm only playing the percentages. You're taking Cliff Lee and putting him in the 3-hole after he hit a home run. I'm going off the basis of what every NHL organization has done over the last 10-15 years, probably 20, probably more. Some side with Holmgren in this respect, because he knows more than you do, since he is an NHL GM and therefore it is a fallacy to objectively disagree. Fine. I'm siding with the other 29 NHL GMs whose collective knowledge is greater.


Last edited by GKJ: 10-19-2011 at 04:12 PM.
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