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11-07-2011, 11:33 PM
  #69
m00ks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
oh, my bad, and here I thought that Koivu/Komi were drafted and developed in montreal

Why do you keep bringing up Koivu if we never even offered him a contract?

Quote:
the discord with the coach isn't "hearsay", it's Kost's comments to a reporter... now of course, things change, people change, and reporters often manipulate stories/quotes, but during JM's first 2 years in MTL, it was pretty apparent that there wasn't a lot of mutual admiration btw the two (not that there needs to be).
Even if it was apparent, how the hell do quantify this discord and predict how AK would react? For all you know, the rough patch has already passed and was never even that serious to begin with for AK to pack his bags and leave the comfort of a city he played for his entire NHL career.

Quote:
I don't even really get what your point is.


there are several reasons, which i outlined, that make up a strong case for why A.Kost is likely to both test the market, and end up signing elsewhere (as you point out yourself, @ 5M). Nothing about that is "panic" or "doom/gloom", it just is what it is... and for our team, imo, it's a bit unfortunate.
Weak case in my opinion. I don't believe JM is that big a factor and I think home city comfort, specially for a quiet type individual like AK, plays a much bigger role. Ultimately it's a question of $ and like I mentioned, if AK gets 5M somewhere else, there's nothing "unfortunate" about that.

Did you find it "unfortunate" that we didn't sign Komisarek at that price?

Quote:
where you would look at Kost or Gorges, and think we're better off without them if they get market value contracts, I look at them and think it's a damn shame we paid top-$$ market value for older vets that we didn't develop, that have no connection to the city/team, and who are truly just "gun's for hire" (and in our case, unfortunately, quite unproductive guns for hire).


If we didn't have Gio/Gomez/Cammy earning far more than they produce, we could afford to pay A.Kost his 4-5M$ first UFA contract, and allow him to hopefully continue developing towards his potential with us.

I mean seriously... you'd want to watch Gorges walk if he gets a significant raise, even after enduring 3 years of spacegoat on a bloated contract?

as with the Streit situation, and others (including Komi), by not properly dealing with contract extensions for home-grown talent already with the team, we end up forcibly overpaying in a massive way for UFA mercenaries, who quite often come in at a far worse cost/benefit value than the in-house player who, if treated well (i.e not made to sit an wait until July 1st to find out if an offer is coming), might very well take -if not a home town discount, an average market value as opposed to forcing us to match the highest bidder.the bad UFA contracts we've given out (to replace players we lost in large part to a poor approach to contract negotiations), are precisely why we won't be able to afford Kost, even if he was inclined to return despite JM...
Overpaid player is an overpaid player. If AK gets 5M, you really think this fanbase would say "Gee wilickers, he's overpaid but at least we developed him and connects with the city!"

They'll ask for his head regardless of where he came from.

Also don't understand the need to paint UFA in a bad light by calling them "mercenaries" and "hired guns" in a negative tone. Free agent signings are an important aspect of building a winning club.

I trust management will do what they need to do in order to sign who they need to sign. I haven't really seen anyone we wanted to resign walk because we couldn't afford him. Hammer maybe, but he wasn't in the core plans going forward. Komo, yeah...I'll leave that one alone. Streit we stupidly never offered a contract, that's a different blunder all together. But no one we planned to keep, lost out and regretted not paying market value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
A.Kost- 26yrs old

2010-2011 20g 25a 45pts
2011-2012 on pace for 31g 25 a 56pts

E.Cole- 33yrs old

2010-2011 26g 26a 52pts
2011-2012 on pace for 18g 12 a 30 pts


Cole signed a 4 year/4.5M$ deal with a NTC after his 2010-2011 campaign, 3rd best of his career, and coming off an injury plagued 09-10 season.


You really think in the summer of 2012, Kost (who even if he doesn't keep his current pace, is likely good for 45-50pt if he just stays healthy), won't get the same, if not greater offers than what we signed Cole for?


admittedly, we overpaid for Cole and no other team was offering as much... but even if 4M$ is the most Kost gets offered elsewhere, do you think he'd be happy to stay in Montreal for a 4M$ deal after watching Cole (and Gionta) cash in for more despite not producing any more than he does?


I hope you are right... but doesn't seem even remotely realistic to me barring a major injury...[/B]

Uhh No? lol. I'd actually be STUNNED if he got the same cash and would flat out laugh if he got more.

Cole is a proven vet, consistent producer, and a Stanley cup winner at that. AK is on pace for his 2nd 50 point season and already has lingering motivation issues surrounding him.


AK staying for 4M isn't even remotely realistic? That's rich. We pay him 3.25 M to produce like he's producing. Giving him a increase to account for free agency inflation is more than fair value.

The closest thing to a worst case scenario is the contract that Ville Leino got this summer and that was widely regarded as a ridiculous contract. I'd love to see another GM hand out something similar to AK just for kicks.

At his current pace:

Above 4.5 he'll NEVER get. 4.5 is stupid money. 4.25 is a generous offer. 4.0 is fair value and anything less is a home town discount.

Given that we're paying him 3.25 already, and increase of a million is not beyond our capacity.

Edit: Just to add, Pleka settled for less even after outproducing Gomez and Cammy so why is it inconceivable for AK to do the same?


Last edited by Habsfan18: 11-08-2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: merge
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