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11-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Reynard View Post
Jagr gets knocked down a tier in my book because you just never knew what you were going to get from him. All-star Jagr or mopey, cherry-picker Jagr. He has a lot o warts that the stats tend to gloss over.

Don't get me wrong... An all-time great but for THIS particular poll, I have a hard time ignoring the ups-and-downs of his personality and, as a result, he comes up a little short of Mess, Trottier, Espo and Lafleur.
Agree to an extent. Jagr is a lot like Malkin today. Malkin has shown some serious glimpses of being the best player in the NHL. Now, Jagr always was the best regardless but there was the odd time he took a game or a shift off.

We know Trottier and Messier didn't have this type of gaffe in their career but does it make up for the obvious talent and overwhelming offensive presence Jagr had on the ice?

Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
What happened to Lafleur's voters? Are they on strike or something?
It is getting to the point where it is nearly impossible even for the Lafleur homers to justify how he could be ahead of Jagr. Considering Jagr is pushing 40 and doing just fine on the Flyers then I can't see how Lafleur has a chance against him anymore. If this is 2004 and Jagr's career ends then I say okay. But post lockout he strung together some nice seasons and an MVP caliber one. It is just too hard to cling onto the 6 year period of Lafleur's. I'll give him credit, he was the best player on the best team in the world for a while. His peak beats Jagr's but not by a whole lot. He was more decorated at that time but was there much of a bigger gap between Lafleur and, say Dionne or Clarke or Perreault than Jagr and (pick one) Selanne, Forsberg or Kariya? To me there is one clear thing between the two players, there is separation from the rest of the NHL.

But think of it this way, even if we put Lafleur's peak over Jagr (and you should by a little bit) can we really catapult him ahead of Jagr based on career?

Peak: Lafleur - 1974-'80 > Jagr 1995-'01 (not by much though)


Rest of career Jagr (1990'-95, 2001-'08, '11) > Lafleur (1971-'74, 1980-'84). Not even close by the way.

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