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11-15-2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Let's just say that I believe that you are significantly over-rating Stewart because of his potential while ignoring his shortcomings and inconsistency and under-rating EJ because of his inconsistency while ignoring his potential. Top 10 wingers in the NHL score more than 28 goals a year, just like top tier #1 Dmen don't make the mistakes EJ makes.

Additionally you seem to think this is a deal were we'll be able to determine that one team clearly won in less than 3 years, which I find asinine. Personally I think both teams won that trade, the Blues added a good young PMD, a super streaky but super talented winger and a 2nd round pick while losing their first rounder, a big minute Dman that they had a replacement for and a good PKer, so they didn't open any holes in their organization while stocking up in some areas they weren't as deep. We added a big minute Dman who's still streaky but is even more superbly gifted than MBP, a top 11 pick that became another big strong Dman who can really skate and solid bottom 6er while giving up a PMD who we had replacements for, a 2nd round pick and a 28 goal scorer.

I'd definitely do this trade again, I'd do this trade 8 times out of 10. But how good of an idea that turns out to be won't be clear for years until we see these guys actually hit their primes. If EJ follows the Chara or Pronger career path, Siemens turns into a left handed Seabrook while Shatty plateau's due to his size and Stewie's inconsistency never gets better, then we would win this trade by a landslide regardless of what happens this season or even next.

As for our future being more promising a few seasons ago I disagree immensely. We had a career backup goalie nearing 30 and no Dman who could actually play top 4 minutes without being a liability in his own zone. Our young core is much more balanced now with Varly, EJ, Dutchy, Staz, Radar, Lando, Quincey, Jones and all of the kids who haven't made the NHL yet, give them a few years to grow out of their inconsistencies and this is a core that can win cups in their prime. Which IMO is a GM's job.
I agree we have very different views of the avs, both now and in the past. We probably will just have to agree to disagree. Nonetheless,

People always give the "lets wait 5 years and see who won the trade" argument, and I'm a little sick of it. I'm not gonna have this argument with you in five years, so I really only care who won the trade right now, and I believe in my heart that our team would be doing a lot better if we still had Stewart and Shatty. Stewart scored 28 goals in 62 games. He's a 30+ goal scorer, 70pt player for all intents and purposes. There might not have been any 1st overall picks available on the market, but there were other young talented d men, and there were many free agents who could have helped to solidify our d-line. So i propose that we would be better off, both now and in the future, if we had kept Stewart and Shatty and gone after a decent D man in free agency or by other avenues. Its great that we have Elliott, Barrie and Siemens in the system, but none of them are contributing to the team right now the way that Shattenkirk could. I live in Toronto and I've watched prospect after prospect develop and then be traded away only to become hugely successful in another market. Believe me, if you want to succeed in the NHL, hold on to your home-grown talent and acquire young talented assets by trading your older over-rated veterans and making shrewd signings. I'm sorry, but McClement has almost no value, there are 3rd liners who can kill penalties floating around everywhere.

EJ will never be Chara. NEVER.

IF siemens becomes a left-handed Seabrook? thats a very big IF....

I've never felt that Stewart was very inconsistent. He's 24 and has a 50 and 60 pt season already. His shooting % has always been above 10... which is good for nhlers... and last year it was 22% with the Blues, which is characteristic of sniper. Besides his rookie year, he has always been just under a point/game. If you mean streakiness instead of inconsistency... i don't know if thats really a very good criticism of a player. Kessel was called streaky and inconsistent his whole career, but even when he was putting up 60pts a year he was a great player. Even if Stewart remains a 60-70 pt player for the rest of his career, and inconsistent, I would still consider this trade a loss. Erik Johnson is not even a superstar or an all-star. he's not even a star player.

Also, if you think we won the Wolski trade, please reconsider. Like it or not, Wolski had value, and we got almost nothing in return. I know you think Wolski is lazy, and that he has under performed in PHX and NYR, but he is a shootout specialist which alone has a large value to teams and he is a first round draft pick who has more than a couple 50pt seasons under his belt. That is worth more than 15 games and 20 pts from a concussion victim. He was also an OHL player of the year and he has several other accolades... it was a loss.

Whether or not you consider any of these individual trades losses or wins, the over-all record of Sherman should tell you that someone else, almost anyone else, could be doing much better with this team.

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