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11-05-2003, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Walsher
A player would have to average over a 20 year career close to 50 goals and 100 assists to amass the point totals of Wayne. Think about that. For a guy with "inferior" skill levels of these other players thats pretty remarkable. The fact is he is superior in every sence. Everyone says that Lemieuz is amazing one on one and Orr revolutionized the game. Gretzky did that and more. He has more assists that anyone else has point not to mention the fact he has more goals than anyone else (by 91). He is the best will always be the best.
No one is arguing that...

The point I made was that Orr was probably the best 2 way player of all time... you need to take scoring into perspective. They weren't averaging 8 goals per game when Orr played. I know alot of that average had to do with the Oilers, but it really was a different game.

Orr revolutionized the game. He was really the first defenceman to concentrate just as much on offense as he did on defense. He was the one who paved the way for the Paul Coffey's of the NHL. During his time, he was the most dominant player in the offensive end, as well as the most dominant in the defensive... no one else has managed to ever do that.

You honestly can't beleive Gretzky's individual physical skills, and ability to handle the puck is at all comparable to Lemieux... heck I would also say the same thing that Lemieux isn't as good as Jagr in that aspect. Lemieux now is finally becoming close to as intelligent as Gretzky was as a 22 year old... instead of thinking the game as it is happening, he is thinking it before it happens.

That, IMO, is why Gretzky is the best. Talent and skill are nice, but if you don't have the intelligence, it is all useless. Gretzky didn't have a booming shot... but he didn't have to. He played when goalies only took up half the net, as opposed to 3/4 of it, and instead of trying to beat a goalie with a fast shot, he would beat him with a well placed shot. I am not saying that Gretz couldn't break a pane of glass, but in his time, he didn't have anything close to one of the hardest shots in the league. The thing with Gretzky is that you never knew if he was going to shoot or pass. He could be clear in the prime scoring area and you would be convinced he would try and shoot it, but instead, fire a pass to a wide open teammate for an easy tap in. Or conversely, you were calling pass, and Gretzky would shoot it through a crowd and in. He also always knew where the puck would be. I don't remember how many times I would see Gretz circle without the puck, and just go to a spot... seconds later the puck was on his stick either by a pass, or on a rebound...

Gretzky, IMO was the player he was because the game to him really was 80% mental and 20% physical. His production had more to do with the fact he was so much smarter than anyone else in the game that he continually found himself in the right place at the right time, or that he had everyone so off-guard they didn't know what to do.

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