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11-05-2003, 11:49 AM
  #15
IGM
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Join Date: May 2002
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Have you ever been sued by an ex employee for wrongful firing? I have and it was over my making an example of them for thier constantly campaigning about the way they where being discriminated against (even though they had the highest paying job in thier position at the company) and talking about their "legal troubles" at work. They had been arrested for posession of a controlled substance with the intent to distribute while on vacation. They constantly talked about it during work time. While on the clock. Stopping everyone that came around them to talk about how I was (to use their words) "The Devil" and that none of "us" were to be trusted and that they had been framed by a racially biased world . What they were doing was not only something that I wasn't paying them to do while on the clock but it also was totally against what I, that persons employer, believed to be the truth and I didn't want to hear it anywhere, especially my company. I asked them to stop doing it while on my premises. I asked them to leave the other employees alone as they had come to me and told me that this was becomming a problem.

Your response sounds just like my lawyers did when I called and asked them about the firing. "Sure you can fire them, California is an at will state and has been for a few years now. You don't need a reason to let them go". So I did. I was sued. I lost. I had to pay that person back wages,pain and suffering and reinstate them. I was told that while Cali is an at will state that what I was doing was censorship and that it didn't matter if they weren't doing their job or if they were trying to make other employees of mine not do theirs. I wasn't allowing that employee the right to self expression and that since I didn't document their actions and counsel them about it (even though IN COURT that person totally admitted to what I had accused them of)and have them sign a form telling them that if they continued with their current course of actions that they would be terminated that it was my fault. On top of that, the judge "urged" me to spend a few days at the museum of tolorence to learn the plight of some of the people who live around me. The judge doesn't know me. Doesn't know who I am married to. Doesn't know what reservation my mother and her family came from. Didn't know anything about me but that is another story.

The "law" in the end doesn't mean that we in cali are an at will state. Sure, it says that we are, but that doesn't mean anything.

Oh, and the employee showed up for work and quit two days later. (thank god)

My point is that (as I told the judge) I had no problem with them saying any of it during thier break time or off the clock. I didn't approve of that person taking my other employees time away from doing thier jobs to talk about all of the trouble they were in and how evil I was when all I ever did was employ the person. That person went to trial on the drug charges awhile ago and not only was found guilty but also was allowed to plea down to a lesser charge of some sort and was given 6 mos in jail and had to pay something like a $5000 fine as well as three years of community service.

I guess that I am not really contesting your theory of our being at will state, I am just saying that the law really doesn't mean anything at all. I lost big time as well as mine and their court costs. I had hired a very well thought of atty who said that "sometimes you get a bad judge" and that was that.

So, even after that I deffend my ex employees right as well as anyone elses to be stupid in their off time. I wouldn't have thought of firing them for being charged with a crime as long as they were a good employee. I believe that what they do in their time off the clock IS THEIR BUSINESS and not mine. Sports teams and their players are the same thing. No different in my opinion. That is why I laugh everytime one screws up and why I laugh when "fans" get all riled about it. What do you expect? Do you think these people are supermen (and women if you want to include other areas) who are above making a mistake? What right do I or anyone have to demand that an employee live up to my personal standards in their off time.

What if PA was a devout Mormon and he expected players to live by those laws. Would it be within his rights? If one of them broke his curfew by playing on Sunday or having sex with someone they weren't married to would it be within their rights to discipline that person? Of course not. This is the same thing. You have to be able to seperate what a player does off the ice from what they do while on the clock. We all have different beliefs and we all have different morals and to try to enforce yours on someone for something that they do away from your employment is more akin to slavery than it is to employment.

I can understand when a company hires a well known person to rep their products having a morals clause because all they are doing is using that persons image to sell a product. The person isn't directly going to be held responsible for selling anything except their image and I feel that the company is entiteled to having that image be the same that it was the day they hired them throughout the length of their deal.

Sports is totally different though. You are paying a person to perform on the ice (in our case) and what they are paid is directly related to how they perform on the ice. NOT by what you think of them as people. Look at the examples of ALL of the sports figures that have gotten away with everything without ever being disciplined by their teams. They get punished by the law like the rest of us. There is no reason ANYONE should have to worry about having to be punished a second time. That is why I wrote about double jepordy. It is unfair and wrong. We the people as a society decide what we feel is right and wrong. Once someone does something that goes against those decisions they are punished. What gives anyone else the right to punish someone a second time for something that we the people have already punished them for?

If YOU don't like what Corvo did as a fan you can show your disgust by not going to the games. Not giving the team your money. Write Corvo a letter. You have several alternatives. IF the team decides that he is playing well enough to stay but that they are getting too much fan pressure then they can trade him. To further punish him so that a handful of fans will "feel better" about the team is just wrong.

What if back when sodomy was against the law a player was charged with that. It is against allot of peoples moral beliefs and at the time the law. After that person went through the courst and was handed out whatever punishment was due them (sadly) would it be right for the team to then stick it to them as well?

I hate the idea that Corvo "might" have done what he is accused of and if in a civil trial it comes out that he is found guilty then I will continue to think of him as a coward. That is where it ends for me. I am a member of the citizens of the US and the system that we use to discipline those of us who break the rules will have done what it felt was necessary. That is enough for me.

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