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01-05-2012, 12:53 PM
  #223
kingsfan
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[QUOTE=Telos;41946231]
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That's ridiculous. So we shouldn't acquire any more players because you believe that our problems go beyond the fact that we are last in the NHL in goal scoring (but up the charts in most everything else), therefore trading for high end goal scorers should be disregarded?
No. I'm saying we have issues that are stopping us from scoring. What, i don't know, but when the entire team is slumping and we are dead lat in shooting percentage, there's an issue. If it's the system, then what in the world makes you think bringing someone in now will suddenly solve that? Do you think Nash will parachute in here and suddenly score like a mad man, even while everyone else can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn? We have six players who have scored 30 or more goals in a season in this league, some multiple times. we have a few others who have scored 20 in a season like Stoll and Hunter. I'm not saying all those guys should reach those levels again, but currently only three are on pace to score 20 goals, and only RIchards is on pace to break 25. That's a huge issue which goes well beyond just bringing someone in here. Not to mention the cost of a Nash would likely see us ship out a piece of our offense (Voinov, Brown, Johnson, etc) limiting any benefit he will bring.

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Kovalchuk is a one dimensional forward and we still heavily pursued him. I am arguing that a one dimensional sniper is exactly who we need. You don't need every single person to backcheck behind the net, it is O.K. to have a selfish guy that is going to put goals in the net and cheat his advantages against the opposing team.
I agree. But there is a big difference between signing one and trading significant pieces of your team for one. And Nash's cap hit is well above Kovalchuk's.

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The last time we had one, he was more successful than any goal scorer since. Palffy was very one dimensional. I remember him just circling out in the neutral zone waiting for the long bomb pass a lot of the time. It worked, he would walk away with a breakaway virtually every game. We need someone who is going to guarantee scoring chances and statistically give us an edge that goals scored will probably be in our favor.
And just what have you seen in the TM and DS days to suggest there is even a remote chance of either allowing anyone to play like that now? DS doesn't let his guys go roaming around like that, they'll have to adhere to the system, just like Iginla did. Which brings us back to the issue at hand, that is this team needs to figure out how to score in the system or it won't make a difference at all who we bring in here.

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Bringing up Penner as like a warning of what's to come for talents like Kovalchuk and Nash is very laughable. Just because Penner didn't work out doesn't mean we should never make another trade for a winger again, especially for one astronomically ahead of a player like Penner.
Once again, the system is the issue. I was opposed to the Penner deal at the time, but even I'll admit I never thought he'd be this bad. The guy didn't forget how to score goals when he crossed the border. He may not work for it, but he's working harder here this year than he did in Edmonton and where did he produce more? Once again, the system is flawed. Wait until DS installs whatever changes he wants to make and see if the guys will start to come around. If they do, start discussing a trade. If not, then obviously it's more than just a talent issue and adding Nash or whoever won't matter.


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Trading Simmonds for Kovalchuk does not mean that we would not have acquired Richards later. It merely means that we would have drastically increased our chances of having both... Imagine if we had a $6 million Kovalchuk on our team about now on top of everything else...
No it doesn't. That pure speculation and you know it. How do you know Philly would have accepted a different player, or that DL would have been willing to give up whoever Philly wanted in his place? Not to mention I'm not sure how you fit Kovalchuk and Richards onto this team from the start of the season. We were only about a Million below the cap IIRC at the start of the season, how are you adjusting this team to fit Kovalchuk in and still keeping Richards?


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It's very simple. Stats aside, if you were offered either player, I would argue that you would have to go for Nash. His skillset is exactly what we need and we can afford him. We need a pure goal scorer. Who cares about stats, they are on different teams with different systems. You have to look at the player and Nash has the clear cut edge and is the best goal scoring talent. The money fits quite well, just because he is overpayed doesn't mean he can't be vital to our team or useful. Sometimes you are going to have to overpay, see Doughty.
Stats AND cap hit aside, I'd go with Nash. But when you factor that cap in, I'll easily take Eriksson. And yes, you should care about stats. Everyone else in the league does.

Btw, the money doesn't fit well. It might fit next year, but that's a might. We still have to add in Quick's new contract extension, and at some point guys like Voinov are going to want a raise. Mitchell could be gone, Bernier as well, and we have to replace them, not to mention no one is suggestion the cap is going to go up at all. Add in a CBA extension coming, and it could be tight. You have to look at these things. A mod should know this stuff.


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That went over your head. Because that is what I am arguing against, and the words are clearly in your mouth (or hands... Or keyboard... Whatever.). Nash isn't high on my list either, but the fact of the matter is if we popped up and said "Doughty is available", there would be plenty of interest around the league despite his cap hit, the price it would take to get him, his diminished everything output, and questionable play. It is the same as if Columbus made Nash available. That's because the guy is only overpaid by a million dollars and is one of the best power forwards in the game. Bobby Ryan said a couple weeks ago that he is the best power forward in the game. He has 40 goal capability, is dominant in the offensive zone, and creates massive space for his teammates around him. Nobody is going to rationally sit there and say "pfft... He's overrated." and walk away, as what I was arguing about originally this whole time.
Why do you think people say he's overrated? Because he doesn't produce to what he's expected. Of course there will be interest. They'd be interest from all 29 other teams in Penner for that matter. But Penner is overrated because his production and cap hit are way out of line. Same goes for Nash. Being overrated is not the same as having no interest.

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He is a leader that guarantees goals. I would be far more concerned over a player like Eriksson coming to this team and putting up goal than a player like Nash. Nash is a guy that doesn't require a supporting cast to do it.
So where's the guarantee this year? He finally does have a supporting cast and he's having one of his worst years, not to mention the fact this is likely to be the third straight year his goal total has declined. That's your idea of a guarantee?

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