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01-27-2012, 11:45 AM
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I'm talking about the scoring touch to become a #1 center in a top10 team.

I don't think Couturier has that. Based on what is shown on the ice, PPG doesn't tell all that much about potential. You could see Giroux's scoring potential when he had the same PPG average as Couturier have now, the same as you could see that Steve Downie didn't have that potential 80+ points regularly scoring touch. And I can't see Couturier having that. I see him as becoming a player that puts up maybe 60 points a normal year (like maybe a little less than Mike Richards). Which is still of course good but we want a higher producing first center?

But only time will tell, and I'm pretty sure time will tell me right. I do not think Couturier will become a top15 scorer, but I think it's more than possible for Schenn. Just watch when they were on the same team for Canada about a year ago.

Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I'm not hiding anything and I even support what you say in respect to PK in general.

So far Couturier leads the team with 2 SH.
I don't know how you back up you prediction of 5 SH for Giroux because so far he is on pace for 0 SH

Don't ge me wrong, I love what G does for this team!
I didn't mean "you" as in "you, dats81". I mean "you" as in "one". I prefer to say "you can't hide blablabla" than saying "one can't hide blabla". I'm not Sheldon Cooper dammit.

And I wasn't talking about Giroux personally scoring 5 shorthanded goals, I was talking about being on the ice for 5 shorthanded goals. You get GA-GF = 15-5 if you are on the ice for those goals, you don't have to score all of them yourself... But of course it could be viewed as unfair if coincidence makes it he has 15-5 and wasn't involved in any of the 5 goals. But if 5 goals gets scored shorthanded when Giroux is on the ice, you bet your ńss he's involved in at least 4. But haven't around 5 been what he's been on for shorthanded per season? Or am I overstating? I thought he and Richie scored something like that since they were put together, last season they had 3 each + I think they were on an made assist to one or a few scored by defensemen.

Has he really been on for 0 goals for shorthanded this year?

Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
And that is why +/- for a player is the worst indicator for defensive ability
What makes it the really worst indicator is actually that how good your team is makes aaaall the difference.

It's usually the same guys that are +30 the year the team's having a good year that are -30 a bad year. Pure offense players like that, I take Ovechkin for example, the +/- is so useless it's not even funny. His best year is +45, his worst year is -19. Meszaros has had +30 twice and -15 twice, also.
A team that's great in ES and average in special teams gets great +/- for mot of it's players. A team that's better than the first team, but is average in ES but has the best special teams in the league get bad +/- for most of it's players.

You can see this mechanism in action in this year's +/- top, with it being all Boston. The #1, #2 and #3 are all Boston. They have 6 guys in the top 10. 13 guys in the top 35, that's like 70 % of their team. The rest of the top35 is mostly from a few teams.

If you play loads of minutes on a good team, you usually have good +/-, regardless of how you are as a player.

Player's that usually get good +/- regardless of where they are playing and how their team are playing, are guys that are great offensively and good defensively (Sedins) or great defensively and good offensively (harder to come up with examples, Nielsen has good +/- average in a useless +/- team, Hartnell! That's a better example. I think his defense is underrated, he gets to fix the defense in the most defensively useless surroundings, I mean Briere-Leino? Two of the leagues all-worst players defensively. Still that line worked. Jagr-Giroux, not league-worst, but still really bad).
But in the end it all comes down to what team you play with.

If you play a lot of minutes in a good team, you get good +/-. If you play lots of minutes in a bad team, you get bad +/-.
Columbus players will have useless +/-. Vancouver players will have good.

Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-27-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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