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03-08-2012, 09:32 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Originally Posted by
Jesus Christ LG, you can't say he's bottom of the barrel when I just went over TEN GMs who have made objectively worse (potentially worse, in Polie's case) moves than him. That's not including Holmgren either.
I want a cup too, I think it's more likely to come from organizational stability than from blowing it up every 3 years. I did mention the "best" GMs and it really comes down to luck and vision. Since the lockout only DET and PEN came close to winning the cup twice and they are both from the extremes of the team-building spectrum.
I don't want a team built on ELCs that'll dismantle. Nor a team that's rag-tag and full of mercenaries like the Panthers this year.
It's not about Gauthier, I don't know ANYTHING about the guy, I just see the direction and motivation and I like it.
Gainey's tenure explicitly stated that they wanted to join the elite teams of the league, the ones that regularly make the playoffs and have a prospect pipeline and attract FAs. I love that idea, I absolutely believe in it. I'd rather have an organization like SJS than Anaheim. I want the Habs to be a playoff lock every year, for ******** pundits like Dreger say that they're the "beast of the East" kinda thing.
Tanking, selling off Gorges/Pleks/DD/Cole to get a potential superstar like McKinnon doesn't guarantee anything and it's a terrifying idea. Firing a steady, patient GM (historically, GMs with a longer tenure give better results) for a doofus like Pierre McGuire is terrifying. Ruining whatever reputation we have among the league in an attempt to bottom out is terrifying. That "dirty diving smurfs" rep that was obviously false really made us look bad - imaging how much worse it'd be if we were "that ****** team that no one wants and has language issues to boot"? Oh wait, I remember. It was ten years ago and it was the worst time to be a ****ing fan. I don't want that ever again, no one does.
This year sucks, and it sucks mighty fierce. JM was boring but Cunneyworth really ****ed things up too. Goat's probably going to get replaced but I don't think it merits a replacement, he hasn't had much time to flexibility in his 2.5 years and whateve he has done seem reasonable and intelligent. Yes, even trading for Kraperle is reasonable. If you disagree, well... tough.
Also, lumping four different GM eras together to make a weak point like "we haven't contended in 20 years!!" is annoying and false and I wish you'd stop doing that.
Dude, I could sit here and debate you on a GM by GM basis... you're not going to listen anyway. And... it doesn't matter. I have no desire to sit here and debate Gauthier vs. Tambellini... it's a meaningless discussion. Gauthier IS bottom of the barrel. Is he the absolute bottom? Maybe not, but he's not good.
If I'm going to talk about Steven Stamkos do you think I'm going to list the worst centers in the NHL to compare him too? No, of course not. Why? Because it's a wasted exercise. Nobody cares about the worst centers in the league. If I'm going to compare Stamkos, it's going to be against the BEST centers in the game. That's what we should be doing with Gauthier. How does he stack up against the best? He's a joke.
As for stability... that's great. Everyone wants this. But we need to START by having a GM with vision and a plan. He's not the guy and he's clearly demonstrated this.
You analyze his moves from a micro level without ever taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Is Kaberle a better player than Spacek? Sure he is... but that's not saying much. And he does NOTHING for us in the long run except tie us to his stupid contract and we waste a trade asset on him. You aren't willing or capable of this kind of analysis though.
You start from a position of defense and then do whatever you can to defend him. That's not analysis, it's tunnel vision and Kool-Aid drinking.
Originally Posted by
I have no personal stock in Goat. I don't know him and I don't particularly like him.
I like his vision, and people like you will clamor "WHAT VISION???" but I like what I see. He was handcuffed with Jacques Martin, a veteran coach who wanted what he wanted and now JM is gone.
Let's see what he does with a coach he actually hires, and with Gomez finally being able to be sent down or bought-out He's drafted well and attracted pretty well-regarded hockey talent (Boucher, Cunney and Ladoucer were all very hyped). Subban became a star under his reign too, for the record. He trusted DD to give him a shot in the NHL and turned him into an asset (at the least), picked out Diaz from nowhere, brought Emelin over, signed Cole and drafted some very highly regarded prospects.
They'll all graduate this year to the AHL and if Goat get fired the next GM will get all the credit.
How was he handcuffed by Martin? If he didn't like him, he could replace him. I mean what the hell was he doing when he fired Perry Pearn? He's the freaking GM dude. If he felt that he wasn't right for the job (which I highly doubt) then he replaces him.
You like his vision? And to support this you say he was handcuffed by Martin. Well wtf was he thinking with who he eventually replaced him with????? Subban wasn't his pick and doesn't deserve credit for him. And our prospects in the AHL mostly weren't picked by him either. Why the hell should he be given credit for this?
Originally Posted by
It's "whatever you do, you're doing it wrong and it's not tough/french enough."
How can a publication claim that a team's being run like the KGB
when that very publication is the root of the team's apprehension
? To use a crass analogy, it's like a rapist bumping into his victim some weeks later and being offended that she's carrying a ****-whistle.
Remember the "darkest day" stuff? We mock it now but the organization was rightfully furious. If the Kostitsyn's and Hamrlik's agents were worth any penny they would've torn the Habs brass a new ******* for allowing 3rd party media to essentially tip-toe the line on libel/slander of their clients.
I guess I just like supporting the unfairly hated upon, until this season I had no opinion or posts about Gauthier but after all these lunatics crept out of the woodwork on HF I guess I just assumed the role.
Nobody hates Gauthier... (at least I don't) he's just not a good GM.
Originally Posted by
At what point will you realize you are wasting your time?
They hate Gauthier, not his moves or anything he has done but him
, so until you can convince them that Gauthier isn't Gauthier, they won't hear anything you are saying.
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I know nothing of the man and I have no personal dislike for him. I care about cups, that's it. Going into this year I said we should wait and see what he can do. Many other folks were on the 'fire Gauthier' bandwagon long before I was. Obviously they were able to foresee what was coming better than I was.
Sideshows with coaches, no progression, last place finish and all the while making sideways moves and wasting trading assets. It's been a carnival all season long. It's convenient for you to try to make it something personal. By doing this you simply dismiss the criticisms as being irrational.
There's nothing irrational about wanting this guy replaced. He's demonstrated little ability to lead us anywhere. It would be one thing to be in last place and making trades for the future. But when you're doing this and sticking us with guys like Kaberle and wasting assets then you need to get canned. The coaching fiascos, the ridiculous Cammaleri trade, choking the life out of Kosti's value before trading him... he needs to be accountable for this. I can forgive the last place finish. I can't forgive what he's done on our way there. He richly deserves a firing and I hope that's exactly what he gets.
And get this through your skull... I hope he gets fired because I love the team and want to see REAL success, not because of any personal vendetta I have against this guy or anyone else. He's a bad GM and we deserve better.
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