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03-14-2012, 12:14 AM
  #226
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I looked at the top 50 cap hits for defencemen in the NHL

The following are NOT on the top pairing of their team.

8. Redden, Wade D NYR 34 6 $6,500,000 - AHLer
9. Timonen, Kimmo D PHI 36 6 $6,333,333 - 4th in ice time per game, 3rd without counting Pronger
13. Visnovsky, Lubomir D ANA 35 5 $5,600,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
15. Gonchar, Sergei D OTT 37 3 $5,500,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
17. Green, Mike D WAS 26 4 $5,250,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
20. Rozsival, Michal D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game
24. Hainsey, Ron D WIN 30 5 $4,500,000 - 4th in ice time per game
25. Komisarek, Mike D TOR 30 5 $4,500,000 - 5th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch
26. Hamhuis, Dan D VAN 29 6 $4,500,000 - 3rd in ice tme per game.
28. Johnson, Jack D CLB 25 7 $4,357,143 - 4th in ice time per game.
29. Volchenkov, Anton D NJD 30 6 $4,250,000 - 7th in ice time per game (6th without injuries/trades).
31. Liles, John-Michael D TOR 31 4 $4,200,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
32. Ballard, Keith D VAN 29 6 $4,200,000 - 8th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch.
33. Jovanovski, Ed D FLA 35 4 $4,125,000 - plays third pairing minutes
35. Regehr, Robyn D BUF 31 5 $4,020,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
38. Whitney, Ryan D EDM 29 6 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
39. Meszaros, Andrej D PHI 26 6 $4,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game.
40. Zidlicky, Marek D NJD 35 3 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
41. Michalek, Zbynek D PIT 29 5 $4,000,000 - 4th in ice time per game
43. Staal, Marc D NYR 25 5 $3,975,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
45. Kubina, Pavel D PHI 34 2 $3,850,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
47. Spacek, Jaroslav D CAR 38 3 $3,833,333 - 7th in ice time per game.
49. Stuart, Brad D DET 32 4 $3,750,000 - 5th in ice time per game.

So 11 of the top 50 paid defenceman paid defencemen on their third pair or lower. (12 including Kaberle)
And 23 players of the top 50 paid defencemen don't play on their team's top pair.

Wow... at least when some people "cherry pick", their arguments are at least somewhat sound... this is just... well, wow...

Stuart- 20:48min/game
Kubina- 19:48min/game (was over 20min with tampa, on a better team, his minutes have dropped)
Meszaros- 20:39min/game
Rosival- 19:18min/game (was over 20min before serious concussion, minutes limited since return)

of the rest:

Redden is permanently in the AHL b/c of his contract.
Komisarek, Ballard, Volchenkov & Jovocop have all been clear disapointments for their teams since signing their contracts.

Regher signed his deal in 07, 5 years ago when he was a top-pairing shut-down dman.


and this is the way you reason that Kaberle isn't badly overpaid? You can't be serious... can you?


"top-pairing" like any other designation, is a term of reference. What we are (or should) be talking about is impact.

a player who can handle 20+min/game for his team effectively, is what were talking about. Obviously, it depends entirely on what other players are on your team, how deep the defensive group is...

Gorges is clearly a "top-pairing" player for us, but he clearly wouldn't be for Chicago (or I should say, likely wouldn't, though of course they could chose to pair him with Keith and put Seabrook on the "2nd pairing".

How many minutes a dman can reasonably handle is what's important.

Kaberle, on a team with a weak & inexperienced defense, 17:41min/game, and that average has gone up since Gill (the most experienced guy on the team) left town.

Paying a guy 4.25M$ and then not being able to use him ~20min/game (wether on the first or second or even 3rd pairing) is not good cap management.

nothing you've presented deals with that fact.

mistakenly highlighting a bunch of guys who A-play ~20min/game for their team or B- are CLEARLY overpaid/underperforming does nothing but show how wrong your argument is.



i mean, are you for real? or is this just one long "joke", with a big waiting for us at the end?

at least that would make some kind of sense...

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