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04-07-2012, 01:35 AM
Cyclones Rock
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[B][QUOTE=Mayor Bee;47449359[/B]]
You know what your problem is? You're dishonest, and find nothing wrong with intentionally distorting facts in order to suit your agenda. Namely:
Nice personal attack. Projecting your own traits upon others, I'll take it. Your dishonesty is flagrant. I'll point it out to you.

1) Howson has been here for five drafts, not three. You intentionally ignore the 2007 draft, which has produced three NHLers thus far (Voracek, York, Mayorov), two more prospects (Weber and Hansen, with Vogelhuber being a longshot), and one guy who abruptly retired and was traded for another prospect anyway.
I didn't factor in 2011 because it's too early. It's called being fair. Perhaps the concept of fairness escapes you.

Howson was hired on June 15,2007 and the draft took place a week later on June 22nd. I didn't follow the Jackets closely at that time, so I would have assumed that a 7 day hire would have pretty much signed off on whomever the scouting staff of the Jackets would have desired-hence its non-inclusion. I think this is a fair assumption. If it isn't, then all scouting material should be withheld from Scotty until the week prior to the draft. If he did drive the 2007 draft, then he functions better as a very quick study than he does when he has time on his hands.
2) Patrick's average, if you remove the top-5 picks entirely, is between 20 and 21, not "mid-20s". If you use the actual average, it's 15th.
I estimated off the top of my head. Mid 20s would qualify as 22 or 23-of the non top 5s-as I had stated. You're argument here is specious.
3) You set a benchmark of "top-5", then talk about "top-6". Gee, I wonder why that would be...
Howson happened to have two picks in the top 6. Patrick had five top 5s and nothing earlier than a 16th other than those. So #6 would be a reasonable cut off point for a comparison between the two GMs to a reasonable person.
4) Two first overall picks, one second overall, Jagr dropping into their laps (which was already addressed), and Ryan Whitney. What incredible skill that must have taken.
Jagr "dropped into their laps". 4 other teams passed on him. Get real. Choosing a goalie who guide them to a Stanley Cup was a high risk and hugely successful pick for Patrick. Unlike Nash, Crosby and Malkin have had supporting casts which have allowed them to flourish. Nash's production has suffered incredibly (bottoming out this year) under the yoke of having no other legit top 6 forwards on his team. Thank you very much, Mr. Howson.
5) Patrick's average was between 44th and 45th in the 2nd round, not "around 50th".
If around 50th when the actual number is around 45 amounts to a legitimate point of contention with what I stated, then you simply aren't a reasonable person. It was a good off-the-cuff estimate.
6) 300 games is not a "legitimate NHLer". Someone who doesn't even qualify for an NHL pension, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean a damned thing. 800 games is a guy who actually had a 10-year NHL career. Patrick drafted 3 such players, and traded 2 of them for absolutely nothing before they become quality NHLers. That'd be Markus Naslund for Alek Stojanov, and Martin Straka for Norm Maciver and Troy Murray.

I'm the dishonest one? You really are quite the card, "Mayor"!! In fact, you're flat out disingenuous as on can be on this one. And you know it. You have access to some data base which gives you exact drafting position averages and you take issue with an estimate of mine which might be10% off. Yet you INTENTIONALLY FORGET these players:

1)Maxime Talbert 468 GP-still active
2)Ryan Malone 559 GP-still active
3)Tom Kotsoplolous-614 games-still active
4) Rob Scuderi 536 GP still active
5) Andrew Ferrence 711 games still active.
6) Jan Hridina (an ex Blue Jacket at that)513 games
7) Richard Park 737 games-still active
8) Patrick Laline 444 games and 12 NHL seasons as a goalie.

If your memory allowed you to forget all of these players unintentionally, then do seek medical help.

Your 800 game threshold is ridiculous. And you know it. 300 games (4 years) may not constitute pension qualification, but it is a valid measure for a player having a reasonable degree of usefulness.

7) You mean that one top-5 pick? The kid who's 19? Yeah, what a colossal waste. He'll be no better than that highly-touted playmaker who truly sucked in his rookie season....that 7 points that Joe Thornton put up was a huge waste of a pick.
Pretty hung up on this comparison. The one year WHL wonder Johansen ain't in Thorton's league. He should have been sent back to the WHL and given another year there. A bad pick plus poorly handled to boot. Vintage Howson.
8) Craig Hillier played in the UHL. That says more than anything else. Not only that, he was a UHL backup.
Drafting goalies high is tough stuff. I've had the displeasure of watching a first round pick goalie (Chet Pickard #18 overall 2008 Nashville) wreck the Cincinnati Cyclones playoff chances this past year. Just another 2 examples of the Fleury #1 overall being such an incredibly nervy and successful move.
9) Nikita Filatov, who everyone will agree is a BUST, has more points than 2 of Patrick's 1st-rounders (non-goalies) and than 12 of Patrick's 2nd-rounders (non-goalies). He has more NHL games played than 3 of Patrick's 1st-rounders, and than 11 of his 2nd-rounders.
All of which were drafted at much lower positions than Scotty's Bust. But, thanks for the information anyway.

Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-07-2012 at 02:16 AM.
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