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04-15-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
starting strength obviously isn't the be all and end all of programming. it just so happens to be that for beginners. doing virtually anything with work for a beginner. this is not news. but a beginner doesn't need that sort of periodization. that's all that Rippetoe/SS is saying. it simplifies the problem to the absolute maximum.

if you read SS, rippetoe addresses the importance of recovery (sleep, food, etc.) for doing his lifts. you cannot do SS without rest days and progress for very long. the upside is that per week SS is actually taking less time than other programs. so you have the free time to do other stuff.

if your female athlete's deadlift only gained 30 lbs in three months, than i would put that up against anyone doing SS. 30 pounds on the DL should be at most 3 weeks gains. if you meant that she went from 165 kg to 195 kg, well then she is clearly past novice and needed an intermediate template anyway.

as for lean gains, if you follow the guy's blog, you know that his approach is not centered around strength training, but rather the intermittent fasting diet. he uses programming templates found in whatever his clients want to do, SS/stronglifts/westside/etc. by the way, intermittent fasting is hard as hell, and yes it does work. however, people on caloric deficits don't make strength gains at nearly the same rates as those on caloric surpluses. and martin never said they did.
I have read the Second Edition of Starting Strength three times. I have also read the 2nd Edition of Pratical Programming twice. I have the third edition but haven't read it yet. I have also a read a plethora of books NOT written by Mark Rippetoe.

So you are saying that <130 pound female whose hypothetical 1 rep max deadlift went from 198 pounds to 227 pounds (while losing bodyfat) is not a good gain? How many female clients have you worked with? These are hypothetical numbers based on a 5rep and 6rep work sets. More importantly, she is likely capable of pulling over 100 pounds her bodyweight and is pretty close to a theoretical 2x bodyweight deadlift. According to Mark Rippetoes own "Strength Standards" she is closing in on "elite" numbers. Her gains for the 3 cycles of 5/3/1 are the equivalent of 70-90 pounds for a guy. In November, her deadlift was 155. November to March she went from novice to nearly elite. She tried SS for three weeks and hated it.

Martin Berkhan, "the guy from lean gains" has a deadlift over 600 pounds. I currently IF. It is the easiest "diet" I have ever done. When I started, I lost 5% of my bodyfat and went from 196 pounds to 188 pounds with 2.5 inches off of my waste. I also made gains in all of my lifts. And it wasn't like I was eating like **** before hand. He also talks about "reverse pyramid training" which is somewhat a simplified version of many different things while also something entirely different.

Furthermore, if you consider that MOST PEOPLE don't want to look like a fat power lifter bulking and cutting isn't practical. Also, while someone doing IF will gain slower, they also won't spend time cutting and stagnating. Thus, they end up with the same net gains WITHOUT being miserable cutting weight and not getting stronger. Starting Strength makes people strong, but also fat and/or bored.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: The average person CANNOT follow starting strength AND play hockey/other sports more than once or twice a week AT THE SAME TIME.

Last edited by BaconStrips: 04-15-2012 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Clarity
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