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04-17-2012, 07:37 PM
  #101
newfr4u
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Boyle's program is not a novice lifting program. it is a mobility program that incorporates single-leg strength. can be combined with other barbell training. it does not achieve strength gains like SS. check.
Wendler's 531 program is not a novice lifting program, but one that intentionally slows down your progress compared to SS. some think it prolongs your linear gains stage. i don't know. check.
Hatch squat program is not a novice lifting program, and also says nothing about any other lifts. check.
other programs that are not novice programs: westside, texas method, greyskull.

can a novice do those programs? yes. will a novice achieve gains faster than SS? hell, no.

SS does not prevent you from playing sports. check.
SS does not prevent you from adding assistance exercises. check.
Squatting 3x a week does not prevent you from adding assistance exercises, just because you say it does. check.
GOMAD does not prevent you from playing sports. check.

raw strength is a far more important factor in preventing injury in novices, than incorporation of single leg movements. i don't have a link, but wendler himself says that every time he talks about his motorcycle accident. once a strength reaches non-embarrassing level, sure, single-leg stuff will help. i can buy that.

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Addressing movement issues It isn't as simple as lacrosse ball rolling and the bottom squat drill. It is about relearning how to activate the core to maintain lumbar position, among other things.
what do you think lacrosse ball rolling and stretching does?

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Notice how my program addresses the lack of progressive loading of functional movements (my issue with single leg stuff) by incorporating a basic 5/3/1. Ding Ding Ding. Linear progression that does not limit progress in anyway? Check.
in fact it purposefully limits progression, even though it is still linear. this is important once you reach intermediate and advanced programming.

what purpose is it to have LBBS and FS on the same day, rather than do only LBBS at higher weight? there's virtually no benefits to this for a novice. learning two very different squat techniques over one is MUCH more taxing to your CNS. provided that in your program you only have one squat day a week, i think it's unnecessarily slowing down how much weight you can put on the bar. much like lifting to gain muscle without a caloric surplus.

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Provide some source of evidence outside of work by Rippetoe. When you criticize me for including power-cleans and deadlifts on the same day, quote someone of value. When you balk at two squat variations a day, again, post some evidence - OUTSIDE OF THE SINGLE SOURCE OF STARTING STRENGTH/PRACTICAL PROGRAMMING.
what do you have against Rippetoe as a source? the reason he gives to separating deadlifts and cleans is because the both work hip extension, but one is explosive, while the other is not. if you were to do them on the same day, sure do the cleans first. but it's probably better to separate them for a novice. i think a novice would be able to move more weight on both cleans and deadlifts if there was a rest day in-between.

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Finally, training yourself is different than training someone else whose goals may differ from yours. I can't stress this enough. It is a skill to be learnt.
yes. the goal of starting strength is the near-optimal (fastest) way of getting a novice through beginning linear gains, which in turn makes your muscles bigger and automatically more athletic. nothing else. any weight goals you may have, you will have to resolve on your own.

most of the advice you give is solid by itself. i certainly can't fault a program for having front-squats in it. but it seems that you take rather random pieces of 4-5 different programs and combine them to make it (1) higher volume per day, (2) fewer squat days per week, and (3) less weight. that runs counter to strength gains, and precisely why SS should work for a novice.

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