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11-22-2003, 10:58 AM
  #22
Arastiroth
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Gaborik has proven a lot more then just one playoff run. Goborik had back to back 30 goal seasons and 67 and 65 point seasons in one of the most offensively restrictive systems in the NHL.
I never said that is all Gaborik has proven, I said that's the only thing he has proven that Kovalchuk hasn't. Gaborik wasn't very good defensively his first year. His second year he got better, but last year he was actually quite good I'd say. Kovalchuk in 71 less games has scored 2 more goals then Gaborik. The first year and a half they had Fraser as a coach, and he is simply AWFUL. The worse coach I have EVER seen. The Atlanta team was so out of synch and had just the worse strategies, etc. Since Hartley came over Kovalchuk has flourished, as has the team itself.

Gaborik is also a year older then Kovalchuk, so this year by Kovalchuk should be compared to Gaborik's last year in terms of comparison. Of course, Gaborik still had a better team then Kovalchuk plays on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Ilya is a great goal scorer and to this point nothing more. He isn't a great assist man. He isn't a good defensive player. He's 10th on his team in +/-, and is a -42 for his career.
He is a very good passer, too. Plus he is acting as, I'd say, a great leader/motivater of his team right now, based on the comments by the team about him, and by watching him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
You should actually watch Ilya play as opposed to just listen to the bandwagon in the NHL forum.
I was one of the first people last year to defend Kovalchuk from the people putting him down last year in many of the Kovalchuk vs Heatley debates about how Kovalchuk had no heart, or how Heatley was so much better (pointed out how extreme the age difference was when most people didn't realize it), etc, etc.. How many times have you seen him play this year? Do you actually watch Thrasher games that much, especially given your opinion of him? I don't watch hockey games at my house, I go to someone else's house and watch there because he has NHL Center Ice. He watches every single Thrasher game for the most part, so when I'm over there that's who I mostly see. I've seen probably 8-10 Thrasher games this season alone, and plenty last year (and the year before, too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
His defensive play is not great, I would call it poor still. And the Bure comparisions are still fair. Though as I already said, he's not quite as bad as Bure who was always a total cherry picker.
I never said it was great, I said it was getting better, and sometimes he makes some good defensive plays. Bure is 5' 10" 189lbs, and plays a perimeter game for the most part. Kovalchuk is 6' 2" 235 lbs and plays like he is. He doesn't play like a power forward, but he sure isn't afraid to get hit. He passes a lot better then Bure, and has a lot more heart and leadership from everything I've seen and read then Bure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
I'm not trashing Ilya. He's a great player. But not a chance would I trade Pitkanen just to see if Ilya could put up great numbers in a system that would force him to take care in his own end first.
He would probably do fine, as he doesn't strike me as a selfish person. I would trade anyone on the Flyers to get Kovalchuk, but I would try my best to keep Pitkanen because of how special a player he looks to be. If necessary, I would trade him, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
And I disgree with you. But don't let that stop you from making unsupported assertions.
I've backed everything I've said up with comments backed up by reading statements from his teammates, his coach, and from watching him play dozens of times. I find that pretty well supported, imo.

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