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08-27-2012, 11:13 AM
  #125
struckbyaparkedcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
They constantly refer to his 40 goal seasons
Fair. I don't think he's any less of an offensive player now than he was in his last 40 goal season, however.

Quote:
agreed.

and yes, he's injury prone.

I think the average of his performances over the last 3 years, is a fair barometer for what to expect going forward :

70+ games
60+ points
~ 30 goals
Yup. I'd just add "with the potential for more" because the team really fell in behind him in 2011 and his two 60 point seasons were the result of long-term, nagging injuries - which, as we've agreed, is a separate issue.

Quote:
So forechecking is not a necessary skill to have a complete offensive game? puck possession? skating ability?

Vanek has an excellent shot that he has trouble getting off.
He's great around the net deflecting pucks, corralling rebounds
He's a pretty good pass/playmaker when given enough space

Calling him a complete offensive player is an insult to complete offensive players
Who's the gatekeeper for "complete offensive ability" then? I'd say the worst thing about Vanek's offensive game is his skating ability, which is average. His puck possession/retrieval is fine.
Quote:
Hammer took a step back over the last year or so... i'd agree. Myers took a step back last year as well. Hammer has already proven he is capable of being a top 4 defender on a cup team... so im not too worried about it.
Fair. I like the guy, Scuderi didn't break out for 2-3 more years from where Hammer is, etc, just not at the cost of Vanek.

As an aside, I think Myers will be fine so long as Ruff isn't distorting zone starts to showcase Gragnani. That to me was the biggest reason the rebuilt blueline was so iffy early in the year, even before the injuries. Hoff/Myers just weren't getting properly balanced zone starts/quality linemates/etc

Quote:
The only issue with giving Doan 7.5, is cap space over the next 2 years... or re-signing the 3 remaining "rochester core" players after their contracts expire in 2 years.

So yea, trading Vanek would rectify the some of the issues.
Yeah, but it's still 7.5 in potentially dead cap space that will get in the way of putting the "new" core over the top and/or making necessary moves. And it doesn't change the fact that we don't know where Doan's wall is.

Also, I think that keeping the guy who produced solidly or better while playing with a bunch of centers in the process of playing their ways off the roster would be a good way to help young talent like Hodgson along. Doan's effects on the kids is almost purely intangible, and he actually puts more raw offensive pressure on whoever he's playing with. Yeah, he makes the team "harder to play against," but he also weakens both the "stack the first line with Pominville-Hodgson-X" plan as well as the "roll three lines with Hodgson as the first scoring line center" bleuprint as well. I already know your opinion about Ennis and top checkers.

Getting Doan at the expense of Vanek means that you probably need to upgrade Tropp, all while still needing a better defensive pivot as well.

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