Kroenke not cheap?
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08-30-2012, 12:09 AM
Join Date: Feb 2012
Originally Posted by
This, though I'm not sure our aussie friend here knows the difference.
Just the fact that you're mentioning the rivalry with the wings pretty much PROVES you don't know what you're talking about.
Do you really believe that Landeskog, Duchene, O'Reilly & Johnson will be shipped out SOON and we'll have another wave of younger talent replacing them before they even get the chance to hit their prime??
People like you make me laugh. You see the team for what it is right now and cannot project one or even two seasons into the future to see how it will all come together. You can't even make the same extrapolation for the wings, who just lost probably the best d-man to ever play the game in the modern era to retirement and have no one to replace him and it's like nothing happened. They are going to be worse off, you can bank on it. If the Avs want to 'keep up' with the wings, they'll need to be a team on the decline instead of a team on the rise.
Instead of spewing off a bunch of nonsense, why don't you check out HOW those teams were actually built and how long it took for them to actually become teams that consistently win and compete in the playoffs.
Ok let's see:
Hawks - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected Kane (#1), Toews (#3), Barker (#3), Skille (#7) and Seabrook (#14). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
(Core drafted - 2003-2007)
Caps - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected Ovechkin (#1), Backstrom (#4) and Alzner (#5). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
(Core drafted - 2004-2007)
Penguins - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected Crosby (#1), Malkin (#2), J. Staal (#2) and Fleury (#1). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
(Core drafted - 2003-2006)
Bruins - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected Kessel (#5), Hamill (#8 - ouch) and Colborne (#15). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
Lucky for them, they made some very astute signings (Chara) and made fantastic use of their 2nd-3rd round picks (Lucic, Marchand). The Kessel trade enables them to keep the wheels moving and don't forget what Tim Thomas has meant for that franchise the past 5 years. (Core drafted - 2003-2006) [Bergeron 2nd round '03, Krejci 2nd round '04, Lucic 2nd round '06, Marchand 3rd round '06)
Rangers - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected Jessiman (#12), Montoya (#6) and M.Staal (#12). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
The Rangers are actually
to draft Lundqvist, who is without a doubt the backbone of that franchise. Then they made some good picks despite the first round busts with Callahan 4th round in '04, Dubinsky 2nd round in '04, Anisimov 2nd round in '06, Hagelin 6th round in '07, Del Zotto 1st round '08 and Stepan 2nd round '08. (Core drafted 2004 - 2008)
Canucks - take a look where THEY were when THEY selected D. Sedin (#2), H. Sedin (#3), B.Allen (#4) and B.Ference (#10). Oh no, THEY never finished last or close to last in the standings and rebuilt their team with young players. Nope, never happened.
In fact, look how LONG it took for the Sedins to actually take over for guys like Markus Naslund and Todd Bertuzzi and actually start being a consistent winning team. It's certainly not something that happened instantly.
(Core drafted - 1999-2003)
Flyers - They've taken a different, quicker approach and have had mixed results. They've actually done quite well with their late 1st round picks (Richards, Downie, Giroux) but it also helps when you acquire one of the top d-men in the game (Pronger). Trading your core (Richards, Carter) signing Bryzgalov and now with Pronger injured, they're not really in any better shape than they were. Even if they traded most of their core away for other pieces, it still doesn't change the fact that they were drafted from 2003 to 2007.
(Core drafted - 2003-2007)
**obviously, some of these guys didn't turn out but that's not the point. The point is, that all of these teams finished very low in the standings and improved their team with higher draft picks in every round.
You see, it's HILARIOUS that you put the Avs in the same boat as these teams since they are ALL 3-7 years AHEAD of where we currently sit.
Since 2008, we only have THREE players remaining from that team. Stastny, Hejduk and McLeod. That's not a core. If we consider that Stewart was traded for Johnson (both drafted in 2006) and our core starts there (being very generous here), then the same exercise for the Avs would result in our core being from 2006-2011 and at the VERY LEAST, 2 to 3 years behind ALL of these teams, if not more.
Are you a special advisor to Jay Feaster? It's ok, you can tell us.
With all due respect, projecting is very hit and miss. What I have stated, are statistics & positions from years past (for Colorado), that were fact. I don't get that shows how I have no idea?
I also don't get the basis that Avs "have to" have X number of average years to become successful, because that is what has happened to other teams previously?
Who says that's the appropriate model to live and die by?
Sorry, I disagree.
Pierre Lacroix, Greg Sherman and The Kroenke's have had four years now to re-build, if that's what you actually want to call it (I call it an excuse to be honest). That's more than sufficient to have us placed above 29th and 20th position consecutively in this league.
We have an average roster (especially top end), and I stand by that theory. Now, by no means am I a Penguins expert, so their lines might be a bit scratchy, but player per player listed below, which would you choose over the other?
Mcginn/Neal ---- Stastny/Crosby ---- Jones/Dupuis
Parenteau/Kunitz ---- Duchene/Malkin ---- Hejduk/Kennedy
Landeskog/Cooke ---- O'Reilly/Sutter ---- Downie/Adams
Mcleod/Glass ---- Mitchell/Jeffrey ---- Kobasew/Vitale
Zanon/Martin ---- Johnson/Letang
Wilson/Orpik ---- O'Brien/Niskanen
O'Byrne/Lovejoy ---- Hejda/Engelland
Right or wrong, that is for you to decide. I personally think we are a very long distance quality, and time wise in catching up to these teams, and it's a concern from a passionate fans perspective (talking about myself here).
Now, I'm not suggesting any players are going to be shipped out. What I do suggest is there is a huge disconnect between Avs ownership, management, players, coaching staff, and us, the fans.
I don't know if you've kept up with the various Kroenke interviews through the Denver Post, but Josh has even been known to call fans spoiled, because they became used to winning, and that's just not going to happen at present.
I really don't get it.
Some of the moves, like releasing Liles has been plain wrong. Honestly, do we need a puck moving D-man? Did we have cap space? Would Liles have blitzed the rest of our D in scoring?
Why release Peter Mueller? Even HE was confused and didn't understand? Where is the communication?
Anyways, I'm regressing. All I'm saying is that no-one has the capacity to just "know" how we are going to be in relation to the rest of the competition in a number of years, and the people that can't do that most certainly shouldn't be told they have no idea.
Guess what. There are 29 other teams also looking at improving from now and then. Re-builds don't automatically translate to success.
Now, I'll just get back to advising Jay. I wrote this in my lunch break, and he's waiting on me
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