MLD 2012 Montagu Allan QF: Zambia Mania vs. Montreal Orfuns
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09-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Join Date: Nov 2007
Originally Posted by
They definately do not contradict each other.
One means that you can't assume things that didn't happen.
The other means that you have to look at the things that did happen in proper context.
As I said above, you need to look at each era in proper context. The fact that Moran played fewer games per season doesn't impact his ability as a player.
GAA is a team stat that gets erroneously applied to goalies. You know this as well as anybody.
Drew Doughty and Anze Kopitar are getting treated the same way. The only reason they aren't getting slammed is bacause their GMs knows that they have short careers, and he knows they aren't that good. If he claimed either one was an elite player in the draft, I assure you he would be getting slammed just as much as you are now.
The same will be applied to Erik Karlsson and Kris Letang. Don't worry, though, our
Mike Green and Tomas Vanek
both get the same treatment.
I will base all my points on accomplishments, but only because they are the only that matter..
When comparing players who played in the same league at the same time, raw numbers are fine. Anything else and they are worthless.
I'll use Russ Courtnall's 1986 season as an example. He scored 22 goals, 38 assists, and 60 points. Sounds great, right? What if you knew he placed 93rd in the league in points, 95th in goals, and 82nd in assists?
Compare that to Paul Haynes' 1933 season, where he scored 16 goals, 25 assists, and 41 points. Less impressive, right? He placed 12th in goals, 2nd in assists, and 4th in points. Is it still less impressive?
Come on. That is so lame. At no point have I inferred or projected anything that did not happen. You and TDMM do it all the time.
Fewer games in a season are significant as they advantage a weak player. Stamina and the ability to adapt over a season facing an opponent more that twice are important considerations when evaluating players. Moran is getting a free pass in this regard.
GAA as a team stat gets applied to all goalies. It is not selective. While your arguments for Mpran have repeated selective elements that have been enumerated.
Vanek and Green. Point is that I have not attacked them on this level because I am able to recognize that good is good when it comes to talent. Good is not a synonym for accomplishments. Good is a stand alone characteristic in hockey. Accomplishments are a function of longevity. Do not confuse the two.
Raw numbers. Wrap you reasoning around a basic fact. Without raw numbers you do not have adjusted numbers. As such raw numbers are never worthless. That you cannot or refuse to recognize them as a base for comparisons is unfortunate.
Your Courtnall to Haynes analogy is the classic red herring. Irrelevent to the discussion.Step up and show using any approach - raw goals or adjusted goals that your forwards can actually score goals at various benchmark levels. But it has to be goals not %s or some other method that masks talent or lack of talent.
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