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09-08-2012, 08:21 PM
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Proving My Points

Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post

Which players of Moran's era are the guys who would suffer from playing mroe games?

As I said, it gets erroneously applied to all goalie.

Goalies who have the good fortune to play on good defensive teams have better GAAs. Jonathan Quick is a good example.

Goalies who have the bad fortunre t play on poor defensive teams have worse GAAs. Paddy Moran is a good example.

Despite his GAA, Paddy Moran was widely considered an elite goalie in his era.

What players actually accomplish during their careers is not relevant in evaluating them in an all-time context? That's rediculous...

In the MLD, how good you are is an exact synonym for his accomplishments. How else do you think we should evaluate players?

Raw numbers are what they are. They give you the facts. What they don't give you is the meaning of those facts.

As I have said many times before, context matters. Raw point totals ignore that important context.

What is misleading about my Courtnall vs Haynes analogy? It shows exactly why raw numbers are meaingless. One guy scored 22 goals in a high-scoring era, which barely put him among the top-100 scorers. The other guy scores 16 in a low-scoring era, which put him in the top dozen. There's nothing misleading about it.

Furthermore, how it is irrelevant to a discussion about the context of raw offensive numbers?
Proving my points:

All of them. Take an 8 - 20 game season and have the players play a 70 game season. You will see fewer players playing complete seasons due to injuries. Rosters would expand since playing a sixty minute game once a week works but not 4 in 5 nights as was the case at times in the O6 era. Once you have injuries and larger rosters you have greater opportunities and players get Wally Pipped.

GAA, offer Al Rollins, Dominik Hasek, Roy Worters as prime examples. Hasek played on high average teams while Rollins and Worters played on very weak teams. All had GAAs that were very competitive for their era.Moran's was not on weak or average teams. Regardless Moran slipped deep into the MLD. and the reasons regardless of the spin are fairly obvious.

Courtnall/Haynes. We are not talking about finding arbitrary or random seasons for abstract comparisons.

Regardless of the spin retired players have no upside.Young players do. While this is irrelevent to the MLD you are punishing young active players for achieving more in a short time and you are creating artificial scenarios - car crash, death to do this.Very few of the retired players will move upwards to the ATD from the MLD. In fact more retired ATDs will draft as the young MLDS move up.

Evaluations - something that you are trying to avoid, are very simple. At some point the cumulative data about all the players from each team has to come to the top. Players can or cannot: score, play defense, stop the puck etc. Just focus on this and stop trying to make the grass grow.

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