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09-10-2012, 07:41 PM
  #143
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As for his 2009 and 2010 seasons, my own opinion is that they are examples of a guy actually being underrated because his team was so bad. He plays the exact same way for a better team, he might have gotten more votes, not less. So no, I wouldn't agree that he didn't deserve to receive any All Star votes those seasons. But there is no way to prove either of us right, so I would go with what the record actually says
We're smarter than that, though.

And talking about him being overrated or underrated because of his team is probably overcomplicating things. there are definitely arguments for and against both positions (for example, on an even worse team he might stand out as an outstanding player even more. or on a better team, maybe he gets 50 points but is also +40?) and I don't see that either is more valid.

With that said, if I had to make a case for his team over/underrating him, I would say it overrated him. How many teams were so shallow that they'd have made him the 4th most utilized PP defenseman in the league in 2009, and the most (by a VERY wide margin) in 2010? Team situation led to different usage, which led to more points led to more norris recognition.

It's unfortunate that the last two are so correlated but unfortunately they are. You've gone on record many times as saying modern all-star/norris voting overrates offensive defensemen, because a very small minority of writers - who may have seen them once or not at all - throw them a token 2nd or 3rd-place vote. And I agree that this is the case.

(in 2009 it was 15/133, in 2010 it was 3/133)

Streit is one of the most challenging players of all-time to properly evaluate, IMO.

I want to get to the bottom of how good every player is on a historical scale and need to be able to view each piece of information about them in the proper context. The fact that three writers threw him a vote in 2010 really tells me nothing. With modern players that we can watch play (and view a multitude of underlying statistics for) we need to dig deeper than a few all-star/norris votes and not pretend that they trump what happened on the ice. Streit is one of the poster children for this type of analysis, and Ehrhoff would be another great example.

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