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09-12-2012, 12:35 PM
  #165
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Streit didn't see a ton of time as a (NHL) youngster in Montreal, but that was a product of their depth and Streit's inexperience. He was also used at forward at times for the Habs, if memory serves...
thanks for coming in and commenting.

What depth are you referring to? This was an average team at best.

I thought I recalled him getting some time at forward too, but I thought it was a case of a guy "occasionally playing the wing on the PP" or something to that effect. Would have made sense when Souray was there, maybe not so much after.

I tried looking at his 2008 game logs to help us here, but it looks like a reasonable distribution from game to game. Nothing that would make us say "aha, these games he was definitely a forward"... in 2006 and 2007 (years that are largely irrelevant if we're trying to judge Streit at his best) there are more cases of this.

However, the Habs do have 35 "extra" GP by defensemen*, so if they were dressing 6 every night, Streit did play some forward.

(*this does not include Dandenault, who exclusively a forward in this season)

Quote:
when Souray moved on, Streit took some more of the offense and performed admirably (out-scored Markov on his own team despite 7 less minutes per game). Streit wasn't exactly a rock defensively and didn't face quite as tough minutes as Markov, but his transition game and his ability to jump in to the play was even better than Souray's ability the year before...
It appears that his ability to jump into the play was as good as you say. In 2008 he actually outscored Markov at even strength, 37 to 30. they were more or less even on the PP, and one doesn't really call PP time "jumping into the play". Of course, this is assuming he was always a defenseman (otherwise his higher point total could be easily explainable by position) and as of now I don't have anything that conclusively proves otherwise.

There are other red flags in this season though. You're right that he didn't play great competition (Markov and Komisarek handled the hardest, Rookie O'Byrne the worst, and everyone else was in the middle, Streit included. He was the most sheltered from a zone starts standpoint too. And his GF:GA ratio was the worst on the team (0.89), despite being their best producing defenseman. If you are producing the most offense but still come out with the worst GF:GA ratio, you know what that says about your defense. He was one of only two defensemen on the team who had a huge discrepancy in on/off goals against (from 2.43 off to 2.88 on). the other was Markov, but Markov played top lines and had a ton of defensive zone starts.

This season absolutely screams "offensive specialist" and it looks like his sheltering was absolutely warranted. I can't agree that he was playing at a level that warranted more minutes and that the only thing holding him back was "depth" and a cautious coaching staff. And this was 2008 - I can't imagine 2007 and 2006 were much different but of course the in-depth numbers aren't there to show it.

Quote:
The next year, Streit's first with the Isles, the entire team ran through him...he led the team in scoring by a sizeable margin and was the catalyst for all of the team's transitional offense...the team was an unmitigated disaster in all facets, between the goalie carousel and the injuries and the whole bit, but Streit was a standout on the team and just did absolutely everything for them...

Not that I take any stock in plus/minus at all...but look at the TOI, Streit was a +5 on a team that was a -78...normally I wouldn't even find that to be too amazing, but look at the guys that spent anywhere near that much time on the rink: TOI: Streit 1866 (+5), Gervais 1490 (-15), Witt 1320 (-34), Park 1219 (-13)...I mean, who was on the ice with this guy?
This was obviously an excellent year and may be proof that he needed to step into a certain type of situation to thrive. The +/- thing is interesting too, but it also needs to be qualified.

1. He didn't do "absolutely everything" for them - for example, it was Witt and Martinek who played the best oppositon, not Streit.
2. You're right that it's odd looking at all those other figures and concluding "who played with him?" because their +/- should have been dragged up towards his. And they had to be, and clearly it was different guys all season. But here's the thing: it directly correlates with the zone start breakdown for the team too. As a horrible team, they got a relatively low number of offensive zone starts. Streit was the only one over 50%, with 56.4. And just like +/-, there was always another defenseman on the other point, having their otherwise tiny zone start% dragged up towards 50%. He was clearly the only defenseman the team made an effort to regularly play in offensive situations.
3. +/- attempts to measure both offense and defense. No one doubts Streit's puck skills, he is excellent offensively and obviously paced that team. But even among this no-name defense corps, he was nothing special defensively. His GAA of 2.90 on versus 3.10 off is very mediocre considering his huge zone start advantage and average competition faced.
4. I don't know what studies have been done on the significance of zone starts versus finishes, but I thought that it was interesting that he finished his shifts in the offensive zone just 50.1% of the time. How did Radek Martinek, who started in the O-zone just 38% of the time, finish his shifts in there more often than Streit did?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...24+25+26+27+28

Quote:
He's always been way better than Rozsival (who I saw was brought up in this thread), better than Redden in his dwindling years (obviously), better than Staal in 2009 and 2010, and probably narrowly better than Martin in the same time period...if that's what we're going for...
I think this is an underestimation of the value of being a very reliable all-situation defensive player. Streit can move the puck, but it's his defensive value (and particular, what his defensive value would be to a good or even decent team) that is really in question, and that forms at least half of his overall value, and it's his overall value that is ultimately important here.

What do you mean by "always"? Rozsival was the go-to guy on a playoff team for four years after the lockout as Streit struggled to get icetime and stay afloat defensively on a mediocre team. Redden in 2009 had outstanding defensive stats (2.09 GAA), relative to his 95-point team that was a quarter goal better defensively than the league average. Martin in 2009 was the #1 guy on a 100 point team, played the toughest minutes, was not sheltered in the offensive zone, and still killed from a GAA standpoint (1.87 on, 2.02 off).

It is extremely questionable to think that Streit could have joined either of those teams and jumped in to be their #1 in any effective manner.

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