Thread: Proposal: Dallas - Montreal
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09-16-2012, 02:00 PM
Nullus Reverentia
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Originally Posted by That View Post
So you ignore how Beaulieu has improved, and instead just say that he hasn't. Instead constantly reiterating that he hasn't progressed because of his defence. Tell me why. I want to know why you don't think he hasn't improved.

He has improved on all of those critical issues.

No. When you look for progression in a player, you at if he has improved on areas on the game that he is lacking in. Honestly, I'm extremely pessimistic when it comes to Habs prospects. I disliked the Beaulieu pick from day, and I dislike it now, but to say he hasn't progressed is just crazy.

Murphy is not comparable. Murphy is much, much better at all facets of the game. He was in his draft year, and he is now.

I know he offensive potential. I get it. Is he good defensively? Yes. Is he great? No. Does he have high offensive potential? No. He doesn't belong with those guys. He's not as good as them now and doesn't have the same potential. Simple.

You complain about everything being so black and white on these boards, but yet you do the same thing with Beaulieu. Yet the people who see Beaulieu the most, see progression.

The world juniors may mean nothing in the long run, but the OHL season and the playoffs do, and Tinordi was better, and was much better in the playoffs (I don't know why you ignored that). Based on my views of both Oleksiak and Tinordi, I believe Tinordi is the better player. You don't. Good for you. I'm not changing my mind.

This argument has no substance, I guess time will tell who's right.
I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying it's neglible improvements, and improvements aren't progression. A player is always improving, a player is not always progressing. All progression is improvement, not all improvement is progression. For Beaulieu to progress he needs to fix his critcal issues that have persisteted him since he was 17.

And he definitely has not improved in his critical issues. Minor improvements in his defense that all defensemen get as they get older is not improving his critical issues. His critical issuese are his lack of consistency when utilizing his size. That is not fixed. His decision making on offense, still a problem, not fixed. I could go on but I've already done that in my previous posts. His defense was bad back then and it is still not good now, even if it's not as bad as it was. That is not progression. He is the exact same player as he was 2 years ago (A full year before he was drafted) besides neglible improvements.

His defense is never going to be great, so I could care less if he slighlty improves in that regard. It's his offense he will make the NHL on and if he doesn't improve in that regard he will not make the NHL. No team wants an average defensively, do-it-myself defender who isn't all that good at do-it-myself anyway, even if he's a great skater. Case in point why MA Bergeron has floated across so many teams.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself here because all you seem to be doing is saying he's progressing because his defense is better (When everything else is the same) and you're opinion is more valid because you're saying this despite you also saying you don't like him.

Murphy is a comparable player type, and I know that he is better because I probably had 200-300 posts on Murphy during his draft year. Doesn't change that Murphy is someone who played a similar game yet evolved it, while Beaulieu has not done that despite being a year older.

Oleksiak is great defensively, and his mobility only helps in that regard. Most players of Oleksiaks defensive caliber have less offensive potential than Oleksiak (Such as Tinordi, who has virtually none). A combination of Oleksiaks, size, defensive ability, mobility and offensive potential are more than enough to put him in that regard. I named 22 defensemen, and Oleksiak is absolutely a top 25 defensemen prospect. I would probably have him to the end of that list, but he absolutely belongs there. I don't like putting stock into draft position but he was taken 14th for a reason and unlike some defensemen Oleksiak wasn't exactly thought to be an extremely safe pick.

Tinordi may have been better than pre-Niagara Oleksiak, but Oleksiak in Niagara blows him out of the water. His defense was steadily improving with Saginaw, and went to another level with Niagara. Even without prime ES or PP minutes (Which greatly exagerated Hamilton's numbers), Oleksiak showed an offensive game in Niagara, one that Tinoridi has never shown in hisl ife. I'll give you that Tinordi was better in the playoffs, but poor performances in the playoffs don't neccesairly mean a whole lot. Strome had a weak playoffs but it means nothing in the long run. (And I realize he was PPG, but PPG doesn't mean you had a strong playoffs).

Back to Beaulieu, the people that have seen Beaulieu have seen progression? Since when. People who were some of Beaulieu's biggest supporters in his draft year have noted this lack of progression. It's only Habs fans, many of whom thought the pick was a "steal" on draft day, that say he's progressed.

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