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05-06-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by underscore_boy
Markov is not a definite top 20.

Lubomir Visnovsky
Nicklas Lidstrom
Rob Blake
Wade Redden
Brian Rafalski
Mattias Ohlund
Zdeno Chara
Sergei Zubov
Tomas Kaberle
Bryan McCabe
Scott Niedermayer
Andrej Meszaros
Robyn Regehr
Sergei Gonchar
Kim Johnsson
Mathieu Schneider
Chris Pronger
Dion Phaneuf
Joni Pitkanen
Brad Stuart
Adam Foote
Dan Boyle
Kimmo Timonen
Marek Zidlicky
John Michael Liles
Paul Mara
Jay Bouwmeester
Keith Ballard
Ed Jovanovski

Not sure who you would take Markov ahead of "without a doubt". The "defensive defencemen" on the list are premiere players on the defensive end, so no Scott Hannan's, more like Foote and Regehr, so I'm not sure how much of a role offensive production plays in your decision.

Then you have young unknowns like Keith Ballard and JM Liles, but they're tremendous players.

You also have big name youngsters, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen, Andrej Meszaros, Dion Phaneuf, etc... who are clearly ahead of Markov and most defencemen in the league.

Left some youngster off the list, like Dan Hamhuis, Paul Martin, Ryan Whitney, etc...

All in all, not only is Markov a question mark for the top 20, but Souray is a definite no for the top 20, 30, even top 40 if you watch players from the Western conference and the rest of the East. There's great defencemen everywhere that beat out Souray.
Lidstrom, Zubov, Niedermayer, Pronger, Chara are the only guys on your list I would
say are noticeably better then Markov. But saying Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Meszaros, Phaneuf are "clearly" ahead of Markov, then thats where i realized you probably havent watched any of the guys you just listed. You underrate Markov for a few bad games in the playoffs(even though he played tremendously in the last two), yet you dont seem to know Phaneuf was the worst player in the league during that time. Markov is a rare talent, I havent heard a single hockey person not praise his talent. They arent telling him to give more because he plays bad, he's elite, but because he can be one of the most dominant players in the NHL. He can be in the class of Lidstrom, Zubov and Niedermayer.

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