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09-24-2012, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I'll get to it if I can. It's tough. I think that we put Nicholson properly in his place (relative to Moran, Hern, Lesueur) so that part is at least settled (and he's already being selected appropriately relative to them, IMO) but then that doesn't mean that all four of them shouldn't be selected 10-15 goalies higher overall. Paton is tougher... obviously.

Iain's point allocation numbers have him well ahead, but he's even admitted that after reviewing what THH found about some of those games, that he should perhaps allocate more credit to the team’s other defensive players. I agree. At the same time, I was still happy to see accounts of Paton’s play; it finally brought him somewhat to life, and it’s not like he wasn’t regarded as a great goalie and it’s not like he didn’t make game-sealing saves at time.

I always believed in his value as allocated by Iain’s system (due to the fact that logic involved makes it difficult not to take it seriously and also because it’s a 3rd party objective source backed by heavy research), but with a big “plus or minus” attached to it, but I always maintained that even if you assume the absolute worst, he’s a great MLD goalie. After THH’s research I think he belongs more on the minus side of that ledger but that doesn’t change the conclusion. I mean, we’re not comparing him to Luongo, Vanbiesbrouck, Richter and Giacomin, this is Giguere, Ranford, Khabibulin, and Burke.

What does that all say about him vis--vis Nicholson? I guess, that he’s “likely” better, and “probably” significantly as well.. But there is a high/low range associated with both goalies that represents how good or mediocre they both could have actually been, and those two ranges do overlap to a large degree if you ask me.
The biggest issue with Iain's points allocation system - it doesn't take quality of the league or the talent pool into effect. I don't think anyone thinks Russel Bowie was somewhere between Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux, but that's what the points allocation system shows.

The quality of hockey improved a lot between the 1900s when Bowie/Nicholsson/Moran/etc played and the 1980s when Gretzky played, but it also improved a lot between the 1880s/early 1890s and the 1900s.

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