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11-03-2012, 09:00 AM
  #137
overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The "small rink" effect has been used numerous times to prop up Gilbert Perreault's rather unimpressive offensive resume (unimpressive as far as being a top-100 player goes, that is). The argument has always been "other star players scored about 20% more at home than on the road, but Perreault scored the same at home as on the road; therefore, the smaller rink clearly hurt his ability to be offensively creative at home". The numbers I presented earlier in this thread suggested that Buffalo was 19% better defensively at home, opposed to most teams being in the 13% range over a period of five selected seasons. And just the other day you commented about how Boston Garden was not conducive to the development of a young, mobile (offensive) defenseman. ergo, the smaller rink favours defense. Name dropping some star offensive players who've played in small rinks doesn't make a big impact on that.

And, of course, it's always been argued that maybe Ramsay's defensive stats are better than Gainey's because of the smaller rink - which favoured defense. I tried to address that in the same post above. I have no earthly idea why you're now attempting to claim that a smaller rink favoured offense.
Canadiens1958 can answer this too but I'm just going to say that it seems intuitive to me that a small rink would be easier to play on for an outstanding forechecking duo like Craig Ramsay and Don Luce. Less room for the opposition to transition, easier to force turnovers, more chances on the counterattack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
has (Gainey being switched around the lineup) been substantiated before or is it hearsay?
I'm sure most people have heard about Scotty Bowman's famous propensity for shuffling his lines. But let's go to the numbers.

Forwards with whom Craig Ramsay collaborated on even strength points throughout his career. (Displaying those with two or more in a season.)

1971-72 13
Randy Wyrozub 3
Phil Goyette 3
Steve Atkinson 2
Gerry Meehan 2
1972-73 28
Don Luce 16
Larry Mickey 10
Steve Atkinson 3
Rene Robert 2
Jim Lorentz 2
1973-74 40
Don Luce 32
Rick Dudley 8
Steve Atkinson 8
Norm Gratton 3
Larry Mickey 2
Doug Rombough 2
1974-75 50
Danny Gare 35
Don Luce 31
Larry Carriere 2
1975-76 63
Don Luce 36
Danny Gare 32
Rene Robert 5
Fred Stanfield 4
1976-77 42
Don Luce 25
Rene Robert 8
Gary McAdam 7
Danny Gare 5
Gilbert Perreault 5
Jim Lorentz 2
1977-78 61
Danny Gare 32
Don Luce 31
Rene Robert 2
Gilbert Perreault 2
Andre Savard 2
1978-79 41
Don Luce 24
Ric Seiling 15
Danny Gare 10
1979-80 45
Don Luce 14
Gilbert Perreault 11
John Gould 9
Ric Seiling 6
Rick Dudley 5
Danny Gare 5
Rick Martin 3
Andre Savard 2
1980-81 51
Andre Savard 21
Ric Seiling 16
Rick Dudley 7
Don Luce 6
Gilbert Perreault 5
Danny Gare 4
Steve Patrick 4
Alan Haworth 2
Lindy Ruff 2
1981-82 46
Andre Savard 23
Ric Seiling 17
Lindy Ruff 6
Steve Patrick 4
Gilbert Perreault 4
Yvon Lambert 4
Brent Peterson 2
1982-83 25
Brent Peterson 12
Andre Savard 5
Mike Foligno 3
Ric Seiling 3
Mike Moller 2
Dale McCourt 2
Lindy Ruff 2
1983-84 22
Brent Peterson 12
Ric Seiling 7
Sean McKenna 5
Real Cloutier 2
Mike Moller 2
1984-85 28
Brent Peterson 15
Ric Seiling 7
Mal Davis 5
Sean McKenna 2

From 1972-73 to 1978-79, Luce and Ramsay were full-time linemates. Gare played three full seasons with them and parts of others, with Rene Robert, Larry Mickey, Rick Dudley, Ric Seiling, and others filling the RW spot the rest of the time.

In 1979-80 Scotty Bowman arrived in Buffalo and threw the lines into the famous Bowman blender. It appears that Luce was still Ramsay's most frequent linemate, but he had a hand in only 14 of Ramsay's 45 ESP, about half the typical ratio in earlier seasons. In the next two seasons Ramsay played primarily with Andre Savard and Ric Seiling, and then finished his career with three seasons on Brent Peterson's wing.

On to Bob Gainey.

1974 35
Jacques Lemaire 14
Guy Lafleur 10
Murray Wilson 6
Yvan Cournoyer 6
Henri Richard 5
Pete Mahovlich 2
1975 25
Doug Jarvis 10
Jimmy Roberts 8
Guy Lafleur 6
Jacques Lemaire 3
Pete Mahovlich 2
Doug Risebrough 2
1976 32
Doug Jarvis 14
Jimmy Roberts 8
Rejean Houle 4
Murray Wilson 2
Jacques Lemaire 2
1977 26
Doug Jarvis 14
Rick Chartraw 6
Rejean Houle 4
Doug Risebrough 3
Jacques Lemaire 2
Yvan Cournoyer 2
1978 36
Doug Jarvis 11
Guy Lafleur 7
Pat Hughes 6
Jacques Lemaire 5
Rejean Houle 5
Rick Chartraw 4
Steve Shutt 3
Pierre Mondou 2
Mario Tremblay 2
1979 22
Doug Jarvis 6
Mark Napier 5
Rick Chartraw 3
Rejean Houle 2
Mario Tremblay 2
1980 35
Doug Jarvis 16
Mark Napier 6
Chris Nilan 6
Rejean Houle 5
Pierre Mondou 2
1981 39
Mark Napier 19
Doug Jarvis 19
Mark Hunter 4
1982 26
Keith Acton 13
Mark Napier 8
Mark Hunter 4
Guy Lafleur 2
1983 37
Guy Carbonneau 18
Chris Nilan 8
Guy Lafleur 7
Pierre Mondou 6
Mats Naslund 2
Steve Shutt 2
Mario Tremblay 2
1984 26
Guy Carbonneau 17
Chris Nilan 11
Lucien DeBlois 2
1985 39
Guy Carbonneau 19
Chris Nilan 11
Brian Skrudland 3
Serge Boisvert 3
Mats Naslund 2
Bobby Smith 2
Kjell Dahlin 2
Stephane Richer 2
1986 15
Guy Carbonneau 9
Brian Skrudland 2
Sergio Momesso 2

From 1975-76 until 1981-82, Doug Jarvis was clearly Gainey's most common linemate. But the stats suggest that they didn't play together all the time like Ramsay and Luce did.

1976-1982: Jarvis has a hand in 90 of Gainey's 215 even strength points (42%)
1973-1979: Luce has a hand in 195 of Ramsay's 325 even strength points (60%)

It appears Gainey was shuffled around the most in the 1978-79 season, maybe his best and most famous season. It would be a mistake to attribute that usage to his entire career, but it still appears he was moved around the lineup more than Ramsay was in their respective primes.


Last edited by overpass: 11-03-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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