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11-07-2012, 05:18 AM
  #74
Theokritos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Come on - at least try to be a little realistic. If all players (and new players to NHL) were treated as free agents every offseason and could sign with any team, how would the teams ranked 25 - 30 EVER get any good players?

What if you were a fan of one of those teams? Why even bother?
I'm realistic. What you describe is reality in Europe. Football, hockey, every sport. You don't need to like it, but it's not unrealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Yeah, you're right, I wouldn't like it as much...
Fair enough, but don't pretend it's not realistic and wouldn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The issue I have, is that more or less every single player before or since him has sat there, just excited to make the NHL and are happy to be picked by the team that chooses them.
Not an argument in my eyes. Just because more or less every single player before or since him was dumb enough... But I think we're not going to agree on this, no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
If I was an opposing team I'd have chased him too.
Then you're not in a position to critize him, you're his accomplice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Setting up a player's union doesn't break any unspoken verbal contract though.
Which unspoken verbal contract are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
20 years later, barely anyone defends Lindros for his actions.
Well, I do to a degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Most people still think Lindros was in the wrong and no one thinks Lindsay was. That tells you something.
It tells us something about the mentality of people, but not about whether Lindros was right or wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
obviously it's the nature of being a professional athlete that unless you have a NTC (and sometimes even if you do), you can be moved at any time.
No, generally speaking it's not. Only in North America. And while it is the case in North America, I wouldn't say it's in the nature of North American professional sports either, it's just another man-made rule born out of business interests. Nothing natural about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
still, four players' lives were uprooted for lindros.
So you're having issues with the illiberal practice of trading players while you're fine with the equally illiberal Entry Draft. Both of course are part of the same system. You're either against both or you're fine with both. You can't complain about players getting moved like pawns and at the same time defend the straitjacket that is the Draft, that's inconsistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
let's say they're 18 year old interns. legal but frowned upon, possibly even against corporate policy (due to the power dynamic and the threat of a sexual harassment lawsuit). but if you are the lindros of your company, guys will look the other way because you're too valuable. seems like just because your stature puts you above the law, doesn't make taking that opportunity okay, right?
Then you're not above the law, only above corporate policy. Up to the company to decide whether you're worth it or not. BTW I'm not defending Lindros for what he did once he was on the team, I defend him for refusing to join a team he didn't want to join.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
the people of quebec lost their team, which almost certainly would not have happened if he'd stayed. but not his problem, right? he doesn't owe them anything.
Why were the Nordiques in such a bad position in the first place? Not the fault of Lindros and not his responsibility to be their saviour. And the people of Denver won their team, so I guess they have to thank Lindros and owe him a lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
not sure what you mean in the strike comment.
You said NHL contracts are meaningsless when the league is not in operation. Not true. During a strike the NHL is not in operation either but the contracts stand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
but that's enough of this from my end. while i respect your opinion, i think we have a fundamental philosophical disagreement on what a free labour market can and should provide for. you are free to have the last word if you wish.
Lindros didn't have the noble motives the founders of the union had, no doubt, he comes off badly in this comparison. But were his motives poorer than those behind the Entry Draft or the Restricted Free Agency in general? Business motives vs business motives.

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