Thread: Sergei Fedorov
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11-08-2012, 01:52 PM
  #228
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I really don't know if you're trolling, or what.
He had 2 - 2.5 seasons out of 18 year career near (not even right at) the top of the league. Otherwise, he started with a handful a handful of 80-ish point seasons when they weren't that impressive and then capped it off by cracking the 70 point mark once is his last 11 seasons. You're saying that he's one of the very best who've ever played in the NHL and comparing him to players with much better career resumes... and you think that my position is indefensible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Gretzky got 2 Art Rosses and 4 post-season all-star nominations during their 8 seasons of overlap. Lemieux had 4 of the remaining 6 Art Rosses, 4 post-season all-star nominations, and 2 Harts+Pearsons during those same 8 years, lol.
The last season that either of them won a major award, Fedorov was 26 years old. Even then, I wasn't necessarily asking for Hart's & Art's... just some regular top-10 finishes in any offensive category beyond his 1994 season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No, sorry, I meant LOL! Furthermore, Holik never produced offensively like Fedorov. Aggregate point totals surpassed Fedorov because of games missed due to injury, and that's it. How many 30+ goal seasons does Holik have again? I almost ran out of fingers counting Fedorov's, lol. "Comparable" indeed. Jesus.
Holik
97 = 82-23-62
98 = 82-29-65
99 = 78-27-64

Fedorov
97 = 74-30-63
98 = Injured (21 gp)
99 = 77-26-63
00 = 68-27-62

Yeah, that doesn't look comparable at all. At it's not like I had to cherry pick to find 60 point seasons from Fedorov... his career typically consisted of 60 point seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I've got a counter-proposal for the bolded area there. How about YOU go through the effort to do a LOT more research, watch a lot of video as well if possible, come back and convince anyone that you actually know what you're talking about, and I'll gladly oblige you. I think this thread will be long closed and forgotten by that time, though, judging by our exchange so far.
Ok, here's what a comparable looks like for Fedorov without 1994:

Fedorov = 107, 87, 86, 83, 79, 69, 68, 65, 63, 63, 62, 50, 44, 42, 41
Brind'Amr = 97, 87, 86, 82, 77, 74, 74, 70, 61, 59, 56, 55, 51, 51, 49

Fedorov: 1 x Selke, 0 All-Star Teams.
Brind'Amr: 2 x Selke, 0 All-Star Teams.

1 season gone and he looks exactly like a player that nobody is putting in a best players who've ever played the game list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hey, either way I'm just glad we're having this kind of exchange about it. I'm certainly not going to begrudge a ~40 spot divide. I'm hardly even prepared to argue at length as to whether 30 or 50 would be a step in the "right direction", for example. There are lots of great players in history, so anywhere in the top 100 is something special as it is. Heck, once goalies are considered, there's not as much room left as one might think. But as much as I give Yzerman kudos for his high-flying offense in the 80s, his longevity/consistency, guts, toughness, and dedication, these guys aren't separated by that much age-wise, and like I said before, there's over a decade of playing hockey together under the same conditions where Yzerman didn't look that much better than Fedorov (and I would argue, in fact, that there are periods in the middle where Fedorov looked better than Yzerman, so it's not even a consistent decade of Yzerman's "second fiddle" or anything).

It's very much a Sakic/Forsberg comparison for me (Sakic with the head start in a higher scoring era, Forsberg shooting past to his peak during their time together, Sakic having the career numbers and intangibles advantage at the end of everything and never being considered on a distinctly lower level at any time along the way), and I don't think anyone has them separated by many spots on their list.
The other 3 players had much more impressive and consistent careers than Fedorov, even despite Forsberg's injury shortened tenure in the NHL.


Yzerman
Top-10 Pts x 6 = 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10
Top-10 G x 6 = 2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6
Top-10 PPG x 7 = 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9
Awards: Lindsay, Smythe, Selke, Masteron

Sakic
Top-10 Pts x 10 = 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10
Top-10 G x 5 = 2, 5, 6, 6, 10
Top-10 PPG x 9 = 2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8
Awards: Hart, Lindsay, Smythe, Byng

Forsberg
Top-10 Pts x 5 = 1, 2, 4, 5, 9
Top-10 G x 0 =
Top-10 PPG x 8 = 1, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 6, 9
Awards: Hart, Art, Calder

Fedorov
Top-10 Pts x 2 = 2, 10
Top-10 G x 1 = 3
Top-10 PPG x 3 = 4, 7, 9
Awards: Hart, Lindsay, Selke x2

And once again, Fedorov's career without 1993-94:
Top-10 Pts x 1 = 10
Top-10 G x 0 =
Top-10 PPG x 2 = 7, 9
Awards: Selke


Last edited by trentmccleary: 11-08-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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