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11-10-2012, 07:34 PM
Czech Your Math
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Joe Juneau and Dmitri Kvartalnov, actually. He was a Bruin that year. Traded partway through the previous season.

Give Oates a full season in 1990-91 at the pace he was scoring and he hits 150. There's no question Oates was capable of the mark; their numbers together and apart are why I say that he had far more impact on Hull's numbers than Hull did on his. LaFontaine is obviously one to consider given his 148 with Mogilny in 1992-93.
Thanks for correction, forgot that Oates did that in Boston. Yes, that makes it even more impressive. It also only makes me more convinced that other players could have hit ~150 at least once, because I definitely believe there were better players as good or better than Oates & Lafontaine in their peaks/primes... and at least 10% better than Maruk... and 25% better point producers than Clarke, who spent much of his energy on defense & fighting and in the penalty box.

Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ryan Walter scored 87 points that year also, finishing second. Also noticeable is defenseman Darren Veitch (67 games, 53 points), who was actually a very skilled offensive defenseman. He comprised all of Washington's back-end offense, and played only ten games the next season - Maruk only scored 81 points. Veitch had played 59 in the year before (his rookie year), when Maruk scored 97. Looking at this, it seems like there was a sort of connection between the two, and with Veitch missing 70 games in 1982-83, Maruk's production dropped back to pre-Veitch levels.
I'm not going to give much credence to the "Ryan Walter effect", esp. as Maruk outscored him by ~50 points. If Maruk could basically score 136 on his own, that doesn't exactly dissuade me from believing Sakic, Selanne, Forsberg, etc. and Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, etc. wouldn't have a good chance at some point if they played ~80s. I doubt anyone would have said "Ovechkin was pretty great that year... but then he did play with Ryan Walter." (no offense Mr. Walter).

Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
So maybe if an already highly skilled player (Maruk was always at/above PPG with Washington) connects well with another talented player (Stamkos/Lecavalier with St.Louis, maybe?) and the league' scoring booms, it could happen. But that kind of connection is rare. Veitch certainly didn't connect with Yzerman that way despite performing well in Detroit (103pt in 153GP from the 1986 deadline through the end of the 87-88 season).

You can't simply take one example and say "anyone could have done it in that era" because 2nd-place career scorer Mark Messier has a career high of 129 points, and he was Gretzky's LW in 81-82 but posted a line of 50-38-88. It was his only 50-goal season.
I just don't see Gartner-Walter-Veitch as a Trottier-Potvin or Lemieux/Gretzky-Coffey type of set up. Gartner's a HOFer, but he wasn't exactly an elite point producer in his peak/prime years.

I didn't say anyone, I mentioned several of the greatest offensive players of the past 20 years... really some of the best in history... when players like Brett Hull, Bure, Fedorov, St. Louis, Iginla, Stamkos, etc. don't even make the "possible" list, then it's a rather select group who are given a good chance of possibly doing so. Messier would be around that level of adjusted peak/prime point production, not in the Sakic/Ovechkin group. If Messier could score 129 at age 29, w/o Gretzky, when there were many higher scoring seasons than that in the 80s... then again I believe there are better point producers who may have hit 150.

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